snowmobile engine swaps?
- Thread starter borednstreched
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Many years ago I built a bike with snowmobile engine in it. 300cc single, junker frame from a 250 4 stroke. I was working as a machinist and had the time to make stuff. What a terrible piece of junk. Thump and vibrate, too thick between your legs and not a whole lot of fun. I sold it running but unfinished and was glad to do so.
Just buy yourself a Polaris and be done of it. They do a much better job of putting snowmobile engines into ATVs than any of us could in our garage.
Just buy yourself a Polaris and be done of it. They do a much better job of putting snowmobile engines into ATVs than any of us could in our garage.
^ i was only throwing the idea around because i have the option to buy a nice running 76 txl for $300. i havent even looked at the drive set up. just took a peek at the engine, i loved how simple it was.
what id really like to find is a ninja or cbr 250, just to have a nice reliable ride with all the goodies. ive also been checking out many 4cyls too, mostly 400-600. one i really like is the late 80s yamaha 600 f4. it would fit with minor frame mods, nothing to drastic. weld new mounts, re angle the down tubes and reinforce them, gusset plates and sleeves where mounts are. id have to have a airbox and fuel cell tigged up. the smaller tank is gonna cut the ride time/distance down. i can deal with that, no biggie.
that rzr sounds sick. but id like to see a mid or late 80s honda oddessy with a snow engine swapped, 1 person = more fun/less weight.
what id really like to find is a ninja or cbr 250, just to have a nice reliable ride with all the goodies. ive also been checking out many 4cyls too, mostly 400-600. one i really like is the late 80s yamaha 600 f4. it would fit with minor frame mods, nothing to drastic. weld new mounts, re angle the down tubes and reinforce them, gusset plates and sleeves where mounts are. id have to have a airbox and fuel cell tigged up. the smaller tank is gonna cut the ride time/distance down. i can deal with that, no biggie.
that rzr sounds sick. but id like to see a mid or late 80s honda oddessy with a snow engine swapped, 1 person = more fun/less weight.
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Ask 79 XS about how "simple" a a 4cyl street bike motor swap is. Because of the length of the drive system and lack of compatible pivot point, the engine is pushed forward into the two downsloping frame tubes. Once the engine is set in there, there is no room for an airbox because of how drastically the rear tubes go down right in front of the seat.
As with any swap, the exhaust is sort of a sore point unless you begin the design phase with an idea of what you want to do.
The BEST advice one could get would be to follow this lead:
http://www.blasterforum.com/yamaha-157/nasty-zx10-banshee-44678/
Of course the link to the Ebay page is over 90 days old so it's dead but the youtube video I *think* shows most of the build in detail. He started with a flat welding table and built brackets for the suspension parts using a stock banshee frame. He then cut that banshee frame apart and grafted a proper hybrid frame tail end on. Completely with custom engine motor mounts (not hacked up crap) and fabbed his own stainless exhaust go around the engine (versus under the frame to get crushed) and then turned it to go with the rear plastics beautifully.
Honestly, that's not a banshee at all but a ZX10 four wheeler ( and IMO, work of art!)
Reliable ride... I have ridden bikes for 35 years now. I have to admit, the old XL series Hondas and bikes like that (Yamaha XT, etc) are pretty reliable. Big underpowered (for their weight) 4 strokes are pretty reliable. Kind of heavy and not very exciting after you have ridden a modern MX 2 stroke. If you want that, you can buy it in the smaller Warrior or Raptor quads.
The 450 cc bikes offer a lot more OOMF and are lighter, but give up the reliability. More complex, more wear and valve adjustments and oil changes and hellish more expensive to repair. Again, if you want that, you can buy it.
I ride a 4 cyl street bike. a 32 year old KZ1000. I consider it very reliable, and quite powerful too, about 90hp. This bike weighs 600 lbs, and most of that is the motor. If you want a multi-cylinder quad, there is one available, it is called a Banshee. What are you giving up? 100lbs more weight (think 10 cases of beer strapped to your grab bar!), double carbs to jet and clean, extra pipes and what-have-you. Nope, simpler/lighter is better.
I have these daydream "what if" sessions all the time, heck I've built some of them.
They are MUCH harder to build than they are to dream or talk about!
Experience has tempered my enthusiasm to realize just how much work it is to do this stuff, and to invest my time wisely.
The project has to make sense, to fill a need that is not already available. Otherwise it is not worth my time investment.
Just voicing an experienced opinion here. Don't ever stop dreaming or building or sharing your thoughts. From small seeds mighty trees grow.
Last though: I have always liked the little Honda Odyssey and kinda dreamed about building a high powered one myself. Sort of a mini-dunebuggy. Well, I got to see one in action this Spring on rugged trail of the type I usually ride, while I had the Blaster out.
It had no suspension, no ground clearance, got stuck too often, was a pain to get in and out of, and couldn't go as fast as a Blaster because the rider's back can't take it. I was seriously disappointed. Doubling the hp wouldn't solve any of those problems, but a snowmobile engine may be a good place to start. Scrap the Odyssey idea and build a vehicle around the snowmobile engine!
8" of suspension travel in the front will do because your feet can take it.
12" of suspension travel in the back because your back needs it. Swing arms will work.
Keep the wheelbase short, probably have to hang the motor behind the rear wheels
Roll resistant, keep the weight low. Heaviest items are you, the motor, the frame and the gas.
Wait a moment, now I'm daydreaming...
It is a contagious sickness!
This is the "walk around" version of the quad showing the custom work involved:
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i dont rember what month it was but i think it was two monts ago dirt wheels had 4 odysees i think in the letters with snomo motors in all of them
i was talking about the 600 f4 specifically. ive already measured for the 600 f4. a guy near me has one in a banshee, it fit with no mods besides motor mounts/gussets. granted the banshee has a little more room to work with.
its well within my capabilities and skills to do the swap. i wont have to stretch the frame just modify it as mentioned before. its a very compact 4cyl.
plain and simple its about price. im planning on buying a late model 4x4 atv on loan sooner or later. ill be spending around the 4000 range with 1000 of that being the down payment, so i dont even want to think about buying a sport too. i have a bunch into my blaster. and do not wish to part it, as id end up in the negative. compared to what i have into it.
thats why im looking for a running bike, title or not doesnt matter. in the 250-500 single cyl or a 500-750cc 4cyl range for the swap that way i have everyting i need to make it run besides fabbing a few things and frame work.
id feel better doing that than spend $600-1000 for a full rebuild on a my blaster engine. plus 350 for a b1 pipe setup and have to tune it again. then possibly have it detonate in my face again all of a sudden.
that way i have the 4x4 for hauling and trails, plus my wife can ride it when she rides with us and ill have a sport with a some get up and go, plus the goodies like elec start, water cooled. with out having spent a ton of money on a newer sport quad. id rather have 80hrs of time and a bottle of argon, into a project than spending another 2000 to get a "hopefully" reliable 200cc.
if i can make a fwd dsm do high 12's in the qtr mile with no internal mods, a quad with a swapped bike engine i hope should be a tad easier.
its well within my capabilities and skills to do the swap. i wont have to stretch the frame just modify it as mentioned before. its a very compact 4cyl.
plain and simple its about price. im planning on buying a late model 4x4 atv on loan sooner or later. ill be spending around the 4000 range with 1000 of that being the down payment, so i dont even want to think about buying a sport too. i have a bunch into my blaster. and do not wish to part it, as id end up in the negative. compared to what i have into it.
thats why im looking for a running bike, title or not doesnt matter. in the 250-500 single cyl or a 500-750cc 4cyl range for the swap that way i have everyting i need to make it run besides fabbing a few things and frame work.
id feel better doing that than spend $600-1000 for a full rebuild on a my blaster engine. plus 350 for a b1 pipe setup and have to tune it again. then possibly have it detonate in my face again all of a sudden.
that way i have the 4x4 for hauling and trails, plus my wife can ride it when she rides with us and ill have a sport with a some get up and go, plus the goodies like elec start, water cooled. with out having spent a ton of money on a newer sport quad. id rather have 80hrs of time and a bottle of argon, into a project than spending another 2000 to get a "hopefully" reliable 200cc.
if i can make a fwd dsm do high 12's in the qtr mile with no internal mods, a quad with a swapped bike engine i hope should be a tad easier.
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The physical motor might fit, but the placement is where you might run into problems. Your rear sprocket picks your placement for you. You must line up to that rear sprocket unless you like throwing chains. You have less than 1/8 inch of error left to right. Up and down you can have around 1-2 inches depending on how close the sprocket is to the pivot of the swingarm. You also have some room for error forward and back. The first pic is the 550 swap I did into a blaster (see XJ550 Blaster in the swaps section of this site). The best tip is to do the large rear mount first. Get the motor locked in where it needs to be. The other smaller motor mounts will be easy to mock up then.
I also helped a friend do swap in our garage. 2002 or 2003 CBR 600 F4i. I was more of a consultant for that build.
The right side frame tube had to be removed to clear the oil pan and such.
The Rear mount.
A shot of the Blaster and Banshee side by side
I also helped a friend do swap in our garage. 2002 or 2003 CBR 600 F4i. I was more of a consultant for that build.
The right side frame tube had to be removed to clear the oil pan and such.
The Rear mount.
A shot of the Blaster and Banshee side by side
thanks for the info! what are you getting for a top speed with that gearing? im considering the yamaha 600f4, if i find one for a good price. only down side is ill end up having tons of time in it.
im almost sold on a 2000-2006 ninja 250. with the 250 only being 6-8 inches longer at its base, 4 inches taller, 4-6 inches wider on the cases. making everything fit in will be a little easier.
its got everything i want. reliability,gauges,elec start,gear indicator,ease of use, great trans ratios for speed when cruising gravel or canals. and enough torque to roost with still having 9000 rpms out of the engine for top end.
im almost sold on a 2000-2006 ninja 250. with the 250 only being 6-8 inches longer at its base, 4 inches taller, 4-6 inches wider on the cases. making everything fit in will be a little easier.
its got everything i want. reliability,gauges,elec start,gear indicator,ease of use, great trans ratios for speed when cruising gravel or canals. and enough torque to roost with still having 9000 rpms out of the engine for top end.
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