experimental front suspension

[sicivicdude]

So, with most things I have... I cannot leave well enough alone.

I have decided that I'm going to build a suspension system around some ridiculously long shock absorbers for maximum travel.

One of the ideas behind this is to create a zero bumpsteer front suspension system working within the constraints of the stock frame geometry. It's going to be tough but I'm sure I can get it!

 

[Jhabeeb]

Very interested to see how this turns out!!

 

[Prime]

How "ridiculously long" are these shock absorbers? What is so different between this setup and your +3 +1 arms? I know this is a crude sketch, but what are some of the details?

 

[bigwill]

Is a set up that long going to be pushed past a working suspension angle?

 

[sicivicdude]

The graph shows the stock front suspension on the left side and the new suspension on the right.

The main changes are going to be "splitting" the upper a-arm tubes with another separate pivot to create a secondary steering assembly. The steering stem is going to push against this new steering assembly which will "swing" side to side in plane with the upper and lower arm mounts.

Then I'm going to create a box assembly that will bolt around the stock spindle that will align the upper and lower pivots with the tie rod mount.

 

[blasty 95]

So whos gona be the test dummy? Ill take that bullet if you provide the a arms an shocks haha

 

[sicivicdude]

How "ridiculously long" are these shock absorbers? What is so different between this setup and your +3 +1 arms? I know this is a crude sketch, but what are some of the details?

Shocks are 19+" with a "throw" of 9.5"

Stock travel is 6", I can get ~9.5" with the +3 +1's. The experimental setup should be able to get me about 14" of front suspension travel.

Is a set up that long going to be pushed past a working suspension angle?

It'll be the widest suspension I've built to date at 12" wider than stock. The arms themselves will be +6 +1's

 

[sicivicdude]

So whos gona be the test dummy? Ill take that bullet if you provide the a arms an shocks haha

I don't build anything I'm not testing out myself....

 

[blasty 95]

Sweet so when u gona start working on them?

 

[Awk08]

i wouldnt be afraid to play with the stock mounts if it would improve the geometry,
if even only on a spare frame for testing

remember pics like these that phragle had linked to once...........

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php/30861-Long-Travel-Banshee.....

 

[sicivicdude]

Sweet so when u gona start working on them?

Prime's lower a-arms are finished except for coating. I've got a UPS package coming in tomorrow that contains the tubing for prime's upper a-arm ball joint tube.

Once I have Prime's set done I begin on the set for the partial trade for the ridiculous length shocks.

 

[sicivicdude]

i wouldnt be afraid to play with the stock mounts if it would improve the geometry,
if even only on a spare frame for testing

remember pics like these that phragle had linked to once...........

Long Travel Banshee..........

That's Lew's of Chassis Fab's x-frame banshee. That's quite a bit more than "playing with stock mounts" and closer to redesigning the entire frame from the ground up....

 

[3 Wh33l3r Rid3r]

19" shocks should be easy to do, i run 18.25" on mine now. i think 245stroker runs 19" shocks. i would look into changing some frame mounts as well.

 

[sicivicdude]

19" shocks should be easy to do, i run 18.25" on mine now. i think 245stroker runs 19" shocks. i would look into changing some frame mounts as well.

19" shocks won't be rocket science.... the main challenge will be zero bumpsteer with a super long travel setup.

I'm completely content in setting this up for a stock frame and "making it work" around that constraint.

 

[sicivicdude]

The process is going to involve putting a high misalignment heim joint on top of the lower ball joint mount and then making a bracket to bolt onto the upper ball joint mount to make an even higher (and slightly more inboard) mount for the upper mount.

I'm going to be using heim joints all the way around (except for the pivot tubes) even though I despise unprotected heim joints for suspension pieces, there simply is no way to get the articulation out of ball joints....

 

[sicivicdude]

A couple of not so good revelations and one or two good ones.

The first sad thing is that I cannot buy (at a reasonable price) a high misalignment heim bushing that will allow me to bolt a strong heim joint on top of the lower ball joint hole.

The other bad news is that the bushings I can buy are $13 A PIECE! and I'd need 8 of them.... that's not joints, just the misalignment bushings.

Good news, I measured the actual angle deflection on these Ricky Stator ball joints. Most of the highest misalignment joints I can find deflect about 60deg. My Ricky Stator joints deflect 55 degrees. Basically, I'd be giving up about 1" of travel to be able to use the inexpensive (I already have a pair! ) Ricky Stator ball joints.

I drew a diagram tonight and with 18" pivot to pivot lower a-arms (+6) , I could get 14" of travel bind to bind. This seems like a LOT but in reality might translate to about 13" of travel. If I drop to +5's I end up just south of 14" bind to bind which will translate to just under 13" of travel. At +5's, flattened out, the quad will be 50" wide....

 

[blasterfreek30]

cool man , cant wait to see how this turns out

 

[sicivicdude]

It could be a total turd, or it could be AWESOME. Hard to tell....

 

[Larry's Shee]

So Cal Suspension Systems Send Matt an e-mail, maybe he can give you a linc for parts. Tho he mostly deals with SCORE and sand buggies, he knows his stuff about suspension. Tell him I sent you I:I not that it matters

I like out of the box thinking like this Project frame chop - Banshee HQ Forums I:I

 

[zmaro]

Very cool idea, can't wait to see some more progress. Also both of those banshees are insane!