DIY 4 Degree Timing Advance (Pics)

[mac2mac]

If you don't want to put any more stress on the engine, then take the aftermarket pipe off the quad.

+2 will be fine. I was going to do +2-3, but I might just go +4. The nice thing is you can ALWAYS go back. Since you have the adjustable plate, just play with it and get it to where you feel it is running best. If it starts running erratic or pinging, simply change it back.

Yea I guess that is the best thing to do...I'm going to have to get it back together and make sure its running good before I touch the timing.To many people like going to +4 so I am going to have to try it before I knock it.No one on here said it don't work and it won't give it more horsepower so I'm going to try it.......LOL

 

[99LRDblaster]

Well I got my flywheel puller in the mail and went ahead and advanced the timing +5 degrees....It's a little under 4mm. A 360 degree protractor is a great friend here and then getting a super fine tip permanent marker to mark the degrees advanced or retarded. I didn't have access to a protractor and was getting POed that I hadn't had it done yet, so I just did a little under 4mm which is around 5 degrees. At any rate, you can only go so far before you hit the silver tab where the stator wires enter the case and prevents you from going farther. I actually grinded off a little bit of it BARELY. I just ran the dremel lightly against it 3-4 times to get me where I wanted to be.

What really struck my curiosity was how much space there was in the stator plate holes before I even touched them. From the factory these Blasters could very easily be advanced or retarded 1-2 degrees already simply because of how large the screw holes are. No matter.....this is all plug and play. Another thing was the flywheel doesn't actually "pop off" like it does with other flywheels I have taken off. You tighten it in and it slides loose, you take the puller out, and it slides off.

After some choice words with a bum foot and cold weather, I finally got it back together went for a ride. I've been needing to lean out my Vito's needle 1 clip anyways, but kept it at the 3rd clip just to play it safe and bumped down to a 320 main which was ok before(not great) but rich. Took a few kicks and got it running.....checked for signs from audible pre detonation......couldn't really hear anything(running about 104-5 octane right now). First thing I noticed was the mixture screw needed richened about 1.5 turns....which is expected as the fuel has more time to combust, therefore more fuel is needed for the same combustion on stock timing. Let the engine warm up, took it out and FOR NOW, the big "gain" is in the midrange.......in reality the gain is from top to bottom(see my dyno thread in the engine mods section). Gain is more noticeable since the needle was rich before and advancing helped lean it out some on top of the benefits of advancing itself. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time to check everything out with the plug which pissed me off, but I had to head to work. Had a blast though. Definitely a lot peppier now and get that little bit of added "hit" to it. I'll have to check the plugs and see what the timing marks are doing and where the jetting is at.

 

[CPARSO]

Im off work tomorrow so Ill be doing this mod.. Took me awhile but I was able to find my Blaster flywheel puller...

 

[99LRDblaster]

Im off work tomorrow so Ill be doing this mod.. Took me awhile but I was able to find my Blaster flywheel puller...

What mods do you currently have?

 

[CPARSO]

I have FMF exhaust, uni filter no lid, boyseen dual stage reeds,jetted for that ..
Will there be anything to gain with those mods?

 

[99LRDblaster]

I have FMF exhaust, uni filter no lid, boyseen dual stage reeds,jetted for that ..
Will there be anything to gain with those mods?

You will still see gains, but I would be conservative for now(not go past +4). Any more and you MIGHT(don't know) have pre-detonation and have to run higher octane fuel. I'm presuming you won't have to and you should be fine though especially with a stock head. Run what you like and just keep an eye on the spark plug for signs of excessive heat or pre detonation. The nice thing about this mod is you can always go back or increase/decrease advance if you don't like it.

 

[CPARSO]

Now your making me nervous about it..lol

 

[99LRDblaster]

Now your making me nervous about it..lol

Don't be. Just mark where things are at and try to be as exact as possible with getting it at 4 degrees....if you aren't sure, be conservative and settle for "3ish". The big thing to watch is mainly just pre-detonation in your case. Since you are running a stock head, you should be fine as the many others before have had no problems that I know of. This is a point in your case that is more of a disclaimer in fine print than the bolder big print up top. It most likely won't apply to you, but just in case.........one of those deals.

 

[Demo4o1]

hmm this mod seems easy as sh*t.. i think im gonna do it this week. just dont like the idea of flwwheel tool and holder or w/e..

 

[99LRDblaster]

hmm this mod seems easy as sh*t.. i think im gonna do it this week. just dont like the idea of flwwheel tool and holder or w/e..

Well you will need it. There is really no other safe way to get the flywheel off. Personally, I know other ways to take the flywheel off, but you are just better off, biting the bullet and buying one as it's the safest way. I got one for $15.00 shipped on Ebay.

And yes the mod is easy and "free power". It's just important to mind your plugs and what they are telling you on top of the engine pinging.

Does it give ridiculous power gains?.....no, not really if the jetting is spot on before and after, but somewhere around 1.5-2.5hp(depending on mods) would be my guess of what you see show up on a dyno if somebody did one. Might not sound like much, but even a 2hp increase on a 30hp ported Blaster is about another 7% in power. Running more advance(to a point) will increase it even more(see my thread in the engine mods section), but it comes to a point where you can only go so far before you need to run race/exotic fuels, loses mechanical efficiency, and/or the rate of rod bearing/engine wear is too excessive. The most I have seen to date on a Blaster is 7 degrees and it wasn't on here. On here, I believe somebody was running 6 degrees but on a pretty modded engine. Honestly, I started out at 5 degrees simply just to be different so everybody doesn't think +4 is the end all of advanced timing. After testing it for a bit, I may retard it back down some if I find some reason to do so, but if it runs fine for me there, I'll just keep it there.

 

[Spywell]

Since this is a timing advance thread I though I would mention a few facts I found out not too long ago that works for any two stroke!

The blaster is easily able to change the timing so it really doesn't apply to a blaster but you can purchase extended plugs that will advance the timing. In researching this I also found out that you can use extended plugs in four strokes to change the ignition timing as well but since four strokes have valves you could actually cause more stress than what it's worth.

On my polaris 400 with 12-1 compression I run a br9es plug, the extended equivalent is a bpr9es which HPD claims is the equivalent of a 2 degree advance in your timing.

Yes a 2 degree advance on any engine by just changing to a different spark plug!

Hopefully this information can be found useful by someone

 

[Demo4o1]

Since this is a timing advance thread I though I would mention a few facts I found out not too long ago that works for any two stroke!

The blaster is easily able to change the timing so it really doesn't apply to a blaster but you can purchase extended plugs that will advance the timing. In researching this I also found out that you can use extended plugs in four strokes to change the ignition timing as well but since four strokes have valves you could actually cause more stress than what it's worth.

On my polaris 400 with 12-1 compression I run a br9es plug, the extended equivalent is a bpr9es which HPD claims is the equivalent of a 2 degree advance in your timing.

Yes a 2 degree advance on any engine by just changing to a different spark plug!

Hopefully this information can be found useful by someone

interesting statements there... how certain are u of this claim? i think most guys on here wouldnt jump on this tho.. seems too good to be true

 

[Demo4o1]

Well you will need it. There is really no other safe way to get the flywheel off. Personally, I know other ways to take the flywheel off, but you are just better off, biting the bullet and buying one as it's the safest way. I got one for $15.00 shipped on Ebay.

And yes the mod is easy and "free power". It's just important to mind your plugs and what they are telling you on top of the engine pinging.

Does it give ridiculous power gains?.....no, not really if the jetting is spot on before and after, but somewhere around 1.5-2.5hp(depending on mods) would be my guess of what you see show up on a dyno if somebody did one. Might not sound like much, but even a 2hp increase on a 30hp ported Blaster is about another 7% in power. Running more advance(to a point) will increase it even more(see my thread in the engine mods section), but it comes to a point where you can only go so far before you need to run race/exotic fuels, loses mechanical efficiency, and/or the rate of rod bearing/engine wear is too excessive. The most I have seen to date on a Blaster is 7 degrees and it wasn't on here. On here, I believe somebody was running 6 degrees but on a pretty modded engine. Honestly, I started out at 5 degrees simply just to be different so everybody doesn't think +4 is the end all of advanced timing. After testing it for a bit, I may retard it back down some if I find some reason to do so, but if it runs fine for me there, I'll just keep it there.

can i get the tools at a local hardware? like harbor freight? or its this tool a specific tool for blasters? if so that sucks as itll be a one time use tool! any1 selling theirs?!

 

[CPARSO]

can i get the tools at a local hardware? like harbor freight? or its this tool a specific tool for blasters? if so that sucks as itll be a one time use tool! any1 selling theirs?!

I could ship you mine as a loaner,and you could just ship it back when you are done with it... May not save much money over buying one tho..

 

[99LRDblaster]

can i get the tools at a local hardware? like harbor freight? or its this tool a specific tool for blasters? if so that sucks as itll be a one time use tool! any1 selling theirs?!

Maybe, but it will save you a lot of time in not being a headache. The center bolt is a 22mm(I think) reverse threaded pipe that threads into the center of the flywheel then a 17mm bolt threads into the center of the 22mm pipe clockwise and forces the flywheel off. It may be a one time use tool.....but at the same time, it's kind of nice knowing you have it if you ever need to replace the stator, lighten a flywheel, or pull the flywheel, stator out and check the crank seal.

 

[Demo4o1]

ok it mightve been already been posted but can som1 post the link for the tools needed? AND for cheapest price I:I its a pain in the ass to view pages thru pages from the phone

btw thanks cparso for the offer but i guess i might as well buy it

 

[99LRDblaster]

Since this is a timing advance thread I though I would mention a few facts I found out not too long ago that works for any two stroke!

The blaster is easily able to change the timing so it really doesn't apply to a blaster but you can purchase extended plugs that will advance the timing. In researching this I also found out that you can use extended plugs in four strokes to change the ignition timing as well but since four strokes have valves you could actually cause more stress than what it's worth.

On my polaris 400 with 12-1 compression I run a br9es plug, the extended equivalent is a bpr9es which HPD claims is the equivalent of a 2 degree advance in your timing.

Yes a 2 degree advance on any engine by just changing to a different spark plug!

Hopefully this information can be found useful by someone

I've heard this from multiple people now, but I just don't buy it because nothing I have seen so far explains how it "advances" timing. Here is why I think so.

1: I don't know about the Polaris, but I went to BR9 plugs since I run at a fairly high brake mean engine pressure and wanted them to keep engine temps a little cooler from the added compression. The plugs themself are the exact same size as the BR8s. The only difference is the porcelain insulator is shorter since it is a colder plug, but the ground strap and overall length of the plug are the exact same. Where the spark is initiated is also the exact same location with both plugs.

2: Think about the purpose of advancing the timing. The idea is to initiate the spark event earlier BTDC so brake mean engine pressures will increase and since the spark is earlier the flame front from the ignited air-fuel mixture will make contact with the piston in fewer degrees ATDC.......which in turns leads to more of a driving force down upon the piston because of the more complete combustion(expansion of gases) of advancing the spark event and igniting the air/fuel mixture.......which directly turns into more power....since those gases have to go somewhere....down on to the piston ATDC. For example(random #s).....flame front hits piston at 12 degrees ATDC, advancing the timing 4 degrees, you can roughly make that 8 degrees ATDC and you have the benefit of more complete combustion of the air-fuel mixture.

This is why I don't buy milling the head/extending the plugs advances timing. Moving the plug or head(with the plug) closer to the piston on stock timing doesn't combust the air/fuel mixture any more(and maybe even less) than it does when stock. Why? Because it's more like retarding timing IN TERMS OF PERFORMANCE than advancing it. The plug will spark(while being closer to the piston) and the flame front will begin to propogate downward towards the piston. If you move the plug closer.....all you have done is shortened the time it takes for the flame front to hit the piston ATDC......you haven't elongated the time period for the air/fuel mixture to combust more completely any further which is the entire trademark of advancing the timing. Will it possibly cause the flame front to hit the piston in fewer degrees ATDC?....yes it's possible......but with even less combustion pressure, which makes it pointless. Really all you have done is increased the chance you are going to have pre-detonation.......which is why nobody else does it. People mill the head for the increased compression you gain from it, so there is some gain in doing that.

3: Extending the plugs or milling the head has NOTHING to do with advancing the timing. They are 100% mutually exclusive events and situations. By moving the plugs closer downwards in the cylinder, all you have changes is the time period it takes for the flame front to impact the piston.........without added combustion. If you want to test this out for yourself, just torque your plugs down a little less than you usually do and then try it torquing it down more than you usually do(without stripping the head obviously)............you won't see any difference in combustive efficiency.

 

[99LRDblaster]

ok it mightve been already been posted but can som1 post the link for the tools needed? AND for cheapest price I:I its a pain in the ass to view pages thru pages from the phone

btw thanks cparso for the offer but i guess i might as well buy it

This was the cheapest price I found. It's actually a Ricky Stator flywheel puller. It's cheaper because the shipping is free.
Yamaha Banshee Blaster MX YFM YT YZ Flywheel Puller - eBay (item 330547333188 end time Apr-06-11 17:35:12 PDT)

 

[Demo4o1]

thanks. so this is the only "special" tool i need for this mod?

 

[99LRDblaster]

thanks. so this is the only "special" tool i need for this mod?

Yulp. After that you just need something to widen the holes where the screws go through. I used a dremel since it was easy. A simple file would work too but take a little longer. Printing off a 4.5" 360 degree protractor helps make things exact on degree change. I like where YFS decided to put his "timing marks" on the right side in the 1st post there. You will need a REALLY fine scribe or a super fine tip(finer the better) permanent marker will work. Put something flat there before you start and mark both sides where YFS showed the red line. That way when you file down the drill holes, you can keep track of where you were and where you are going. I:I