i bet you could find a pump that didnt need so much amp/volt. you arent feeding a supercharged hemi!!
plus you will not have anything else running off the voltage will you? well maybe an ignition? sorry i havent read all the latest posts.
When it rains it pours!
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i bet you could find a pump that didnt need so much amp/volt. you arent feeding a supercharged hemi!!
plus you will not have anything else running off the voltage will you? well maybe an ignition? sorry i havent read all the latest posts.
It's going to be an electric fuel pump capable of ~60 psi and about 50 lbs/hr, an ignition coil capable of firing ~50,000 volts, and a small amperage draw for the computer. I figured with a safety margin a 5Ah battery (small enough to carry) would only run that stuff about 20 minutes before voltage drops enough to affect fuel supply pressure.
With JUST an ignition coil and computer it would last like 90 minutes safely. Obviously, an hour and a half of solid running is more than a single drag night AND if the ignition system is what fails, the engine will begin to run poorly but won't starve for fuel and oil.
With JUST an ignition coil and computer it would last like 90 minutes safely. Obviously, an hour and a half of solid running is more than a single drag night AND if the ignition system is what fails, the engine will begin to run poorly but won't starve for fuel and oil.
that all sounds good.. but what about charging that battery with the stator? have you figured if that can run the ingnition and a pump? with that charging the battery im betting you can get the same amount of run time with the pump as well. what you said here is no charging right? just off battery?
Then I can't run a small diameter flywheel. We're back at the round robin of problems.
Interesting developments in the last few days. Been doing some discussing about EFI systems, ignition contollers, and some soul searching.
Tater turned me towards a small EFI system (package deal!) designed for small displacement engines specifically with very little excess DC power. The system is REALLY the nuts for something like this.... it's designed to operate around an electric fuel pump that only draws 2 amps (putting it in the range of a DC conversion'd blaster actually! I:I) however, the system is quite spendy....
Looking at the time I have available (I want to run this in April) I'm leaning more towards option #2 as a "stop gap". I'm looking at options to run an ignition controller (DC-CDI) and rock the PJ38 I've already got ready. Perhaps over the summer something could be done involving EFI...
Tater turned me towards a small EFI system (package deal!) designed for small displacement engines specifically with very little excess DC power. The system is REALLY the nuts for something like this.... it's designed to operate around an electric fuel pump that only draws 2 amps (putting it in the range of a DC conversion'd blaster actually! I:I) however, the system is quite spendy....
Looking at the time I have available (I want to run this in April) I'm leaning more towards option #2 as a "stop gap". I'm looking at options to run an ignition controller (DC-CDI) and rock the PJ38 I've already got ready. Perhaps over the summer something could be done involving EFI...
EFI looks like fun. Cool stuff if it is what it says. $400 base + $150 2nd injector + $45 for fully programmable CDI
$600 should buy hours of testing & programming. I've been hooked on alcohol but this is a very tempting toy since I already have a 12v dc battery system for my Blaster. Be nice to have a sicivicdude first hand test & evaluation ... nudge, nudge ...
~
2-stroke Small Engine Fuel Injection Kits
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Wonder if a little 8oz battery would get through a day at the drags?
~
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
$600 should buy hours of testing & programming. I've been hooked on alcohol but this is a very tempting toy since I already have a 12v dc battery system for my Blaster. Be nice to have a sicivicdude first hand test & evaluation ... nudge, nudge ...
~
2-stroke Small Engine Fuel Injection Kits
~
Wonder if a little 8oz battery would get through a day at the drags?
~
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
Last edited by a moderator:
EFI looks like fun. Cool stuff if it is what it says. $400 base + $150 2nd injector + $45 for fully programmable CDI
$600 should buy hours of testing & programming. I've been hooked on alcohol but this is a very tempting toy since I already have a 12v dc battery system for my Blaster. Be nice to have a sicivicdude first hand test & evaluation ... nudge, nudge ...
~
2-stroke Small Engine Fuel Injection Kits
~
Wonder if a little 8oz battery would get through a day at the drags?
~
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
The Ecotrons system is the one I was talking about Strokedtater linked me to. It's an all inclusive package for ~$600 (as you mentioned) however, my current budget of $1k is already slightly bust and spending $600 on a $1k budget quad is.....well..... just silly right now.
That battery is intriguing though. It *says* 4Ah with only 8 oz weight (VERY good power to weight ratio) and I was only budgetting 5 Ah out of a small lead acid battery so it's not that it would reduce the run time substantially.... something to think about for later.
My goal at the moment though, is simply a DC CDI. Perhaps one running off one of those small batteries like you posted....
I'd like to use the pickup coil and *preferrably* a handbuilt CDI board to control ignition timing. I've been batting around a few ideas about ignition timing tables (versus having no timing table and either having retarded timing at full RPM or advanced timing at start speeds both of which are big no-no's). Some of those include using a small "open source" real time computer board to do the computations and then building, along with the board, a PNP transistor board to fire a full size ignition coil. The result would be a programmable digital ignition box that runs off 12VDC and would use an external high power 12VDC ignition coil to throw some SERIOUS fire to those two spark plugs...
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I have been reading SOOOOOO much about ignition systems, my head is kind of spinning. I'm going to do some measuring tonight and figure out how the stock system functions (AC-CDI I'm fairly sure but I have to check anyway!) and figure out how I can use that to my advantage.
Most of the DIY capacitive discharge ignition systems that are outlined are not only not originally developed in English (as the designers primary language) but were designed around a particular use (a particular in for instance).
I'm reading more into how I can adapt those uses to suit my needs in building an ignition system.
My goal is to get enough "fire" into the cylinder to force this mixture to spark. Whether this takes me to building a DC-CDI system or making a TCI, or going with a ECU controlled direct coil....
Most of the DIY capacitive discharge ignition systems that are outlined are not only not originally developed in English (as the designers primary language) but were designed around a particular use (a particular in for instance).
I'm reading more into how I can adapt those uses to suit my needs in building an ignition system.
My goal is to get enough "fire" into the cylinder to force this mixture to spark. Whether this takes me to building a DC-CDI system or making a TCI, or going with a ECU controlled direct coil....
custom always makes it more badass lol.
i'm sure you can come up with something, without having to drop the $300+ on MSD or something
i'm sure you can come up with something, without having to drop the $300+ on MSD or something
Ok, I'm going to try and summarize what I've learned here.... try to stick with me...
There are two general different methods to generate spark. Think of the two as simply, positive ground and negative ground (REALLLLLLY simple version but that's basically how they work..)
The positive ground system is how automotive systems work. The only changes in the last 90 years or so to those systems has been the trigger assemblies. First we had points, then we had combination units, and now we have TCI controllers. The system works by hooking the "power" to the positive side of the ignition coil and then breaking the ground at a specified moment to force the collected power out to the spark plug. It's the stopping of the "charging" that causes the spark.
The negative ground systems are how CDI units work. The power is generated by the flywheel, is transformed to ~300V and is stored in a capacitor (built into the CDI box). At the precise moment (ignition timing event) the 300V is discharged into the primary coil (the one right in front of the seat) and that steps that 300V 1amp spark into a 10,000V .001mA spark event.
The advantage of the CDI unit is clean and crisp high rpm operation and relatively trouble free operation (versus points or oil filled coils which break down) and high voltage available from a relatively lightweight unit.
In my readings I'm come across a few interesting facts. Under normal conditions a .040" spark plug gap takes ~10kV to initiate the plasma stream. Anything above this number is just "extra" voltage. Unfortunately, upgrading the system isn't as easy as it is on a TCI based system.
My learnin's are as follows: The source coil produces voltage which is either used directly (source coil produces 200-300V which is then simply stored by the capacitor) or is transformed (source coil produces lower voltage but the transformer steps it up to 200-300V) up to usable voltage. If the capacitor can handle it, moderately more voltage production will result in more "multiplication" when that voltage gets to coil (more on that later). Unfortunately, capacitors are limited and an over-voltage will cause a carbon track on the capacitor and ground it out rendering the ignition system ineffective. Ultimately, the source coil power production isn't the major holdup and in the grand scheme of things won't change the final product that much. One of my initial concerns was that the source coil on the blaster wasn't up to the task of producing a really strong spark. I still might not end up with a blaster source coil.... but I think the blaster source coil has the capacity to produce high voltage...
There is nothing "magic" about a CDI box. I've seen several schematics for various versions using a programmable chips (which I think I'm going to be doing) to tune the timing. I'll be building a CDI board from scratch for this project.
The internal resistance of the ignition coil is absolutely crucial for the final output voltage. The negative ground coils are simply a high speed transformer which takes the incoming 300 V 1 amp and turns it into 10,000 v at ~.001 amp. The voltage being the important part for bridging the spark plug gap.... It does this in about 1 mS (millisecond).
My understanding of the internal resistance on the negative ground coils is limited as manufacturers aren't clear on the implications of internal resistance on power output but I DO understand that the "hot" coils can draw too much power from the rest of the system and burn out the transformer. The basic operation of the "hot coils" is to either reduce the number of windings or increase them to make the transformer more powerful. The operation is a function of the number of windings around the iron core that act as a "multiplier" for the voltage system. "Normal" winding counts are about 100:1 so *theoretically* the multiplication of incoming voltage could output 100 times the voltage, one hundredth of the amperage. In practice that doesn't exactly work out like that BUT the possibility is there to produce much more than stock voltage from a CDI ignition system without making MAJOR changes (like having to go to an EFI kit in order to get more power!)
There are two general different methods to generate spark. Think of the two as simply, positive ground and negative ground (REALLLLLLY simple version but that's basically how they work..)
The positive ground system is how automotive systems work. The only changes in the last 90 years or so to those systems has been the trigger assemblies. First we had points, then we had combination units, and now we have TCI controllers. The system works by hooking the "power" to the positive side of the ignition coil and then breaking the ground at a specified moment to force the collected power out to the spark plug. It's the stopping of the "charging" that causes the spark.
The negative ground systems are how CDI units work. The power is generated by the flywheel, is transformed to ~300V and is stored in a capacitor (built into the CDI box). At the precise moment (ignition timing event) the 300V is discharged into the primary coil (the one right in front of the seat) and that steps that 300V 1amp spark into a 10,000V .001mA spark event.
The advantage of the CDI unit is clean and crisp high rpm operation and relatively trouble free operation (versus points or oil filled coils which break down) and high voltage available from a relatively lightweight unit.
In my readings I'm come across a few interesting facts. Under normal conditions a .040" spark plug gap takes ~10kV to initiate the plasma stream. Anything above this number is just "extra" voltage. Unfortunately, upgrading the system isn't as easy as it is on a TCI based system.
My learnin's are as follows: The source coil produces voltage which is either used directly (source coil produces 200-300V which is then simply stored by the capacitor) or is transformed (source coil produces lower voltage but the transformer steps it up to 200-300V) up to usable voltage. If the capacitor can handle it, moderately more voltage production will result in more "multiplication" when that voltage gets to coil (more on that later). Unfortunately, capacitors are limited and an over-voltage will cause a carbon track on the capacitor and ground it out rendering the ignition system ineffective. Ultimately, the source coil power production isn't the major holdup and in the grand scheme of things won't change the final product that much. One of my initial concerns was that the source coil on the blaster wasn't up to the task of producing a really strong spark. I still might not end up with a blaster source coil.... but I think the blaster source coil has the capacity to produce high voltage...
There is nothing "magic" about a CDI box. I've seen several schematics for various versions using a programmable chips (which I think I'm going to be doing) to tune the timing. I'll be building a CDI board from scratch for this project.
The internal resistance of the ignition coil is absolutely crucial for the final output voltage. The negative ground coils are simply a high speed transformer which takes the incoming 300 V 1 amp and turns it into 10,000 v at ~.001 amp. The voltage being the important part for bridging the spark plug gap.... It does this in about 1 mS (millisecond).
My understanding of the internal resistance on the negative ground coils is limited as manufacturers aren't clear on the implications of internal resistance on power output but I DO understand that the "hot" coils can draw too much power from the rest of the system and burn out the transformer. The basic operation of the "hot coils" is to either reduce the number of windings or increase them to make the transformer more powerful. The operation is a function of the number of windings around the iron core that act as a "multiplier" for the voltage system. "Normal" winding counts are about 100:1 so *theoretically* the multiplication of incoming voltage could output 100 times the voltage, one hundredth of the amperage. In practice that doesn't exactly work out like that BUT the possibility is there to produce much more than stock voltage from a CDI ignition system without making MAJOR changes (like having to go to an EFI kit in order to get more power!)
WOW! that was deep and I actually understand most of it!
I remember my Older 90's bronco having an issue with the carbon tracking on the cap and rotor, I cleared this up buy doing a few things, one I switched the factory coil out to an MSD TFI coil more volts 44,000 as compared to the stock 36,000 and also a rubber boot wrap (from a mustang) around the cap. I also upgraded my alternator to a 200amp- and added three grounding straps to the truck- I had no carbon tracking even when I went up to the bumper in water after that.
Not relative to this application as we are talking about two opposite systems but that was my findings!
What good is knowledge if one cannot relay? Like having a dragcar on bicycle tires...
The ability to just "switch out" one coil for another is one advantage of the "Kettering" type systems although It's rumored that extra voltage from the ignition coil is kinda like running race gas on a stock engine. The advantage is only really there if the engine NEEDS it. Unfortunately, my engine will need it and the CDI systems aren't as flexible. I'm going to be doing a MAJOR overhaul of the ignition system in order to get enough voltage out to keep the spark plugs firing even when they're "fouled" by liquid fuel.
I just pictured you as CONFUSCIOUS with a little rice hat sitting on your floor no shoes talking to chuck norris!
Really, all this information in this thread and all the work that this thread represents and the best you've got is "I'm the XXX'th person to reply"?
Ok, so thoughts on this..... Does ANYONE know if a newer model YZ250/YZ125 flywheel taper will fit on a blaster crankshaft.
My immediate inclination is that they won't simply because yamaha seems to do that sort of thing BUT the later model YZ125's use the same puller tool.
I ask because the newer 4 pole source coils don't use a pickup like the blaster, they use a much more sensitive VR pickup on the outside of the flywheel.
I'm thinking a 99-08 YZ125 flywheel and stator plate used off Ebay might be a VERY fine start to the homebrew ignition system I've been dreaming up!
My immediate inclination is that they won't simply because yamaha seems to do that sort of thing BUT the later model YZ125's use the same puller tool.
I ask because the newer 4 pole source coils don't use a pickup like the blaster, they use a much more sensitive VR pickup on the outside of the flywheel.
I'm thinking a 99-08 YZ125 flywheel and stator plate used off Ebay might be a VERY fine start to the homebrew ignition system I've been dreaming up!
Also, I need to think about this some more but here's my thoughts...
Looking at CDI ignition coils, the factory coil is primary 1.5 ohms secondary ~6k ohms. I found every range you could think of from .5 ohms to 5 ohms primary.
I want more fire out of the same 300V transformer output but I'm concerned that the wrong resistance through the ignition coil is going to kill the CDI box.
Looking at CDI ignition coils, the factory coil is primary 1.5 ohms secondary ~6k ohms. I found every range you could think of from .5 ohms to 5 ohms primary.
I want more fire out of the same 300V transformer output but I'm concerned that the wrong resistance through the ignition coil is going to kill the CDI box.
i wouldnt assume anything because they use the same puller. there are probably 40 different offroad 2 stroke engines that use the same puller as the blaster.
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