How to block off the oil injection thing

[EZRider76]

The oil injection does not run a mixture of 32:1.More like 40:1.Not sure but a couple ounces in the tank with oil injection is still going to be around 32:1.Not sure where to much oil is a factor here.This is just what is says in the clymers repair manual to do for first tank of gas for break in.But no big deal.At least we all agrea to just mix the gas manualy @ 32:1

Fuel tank is 2.38 gal, 4 ounces of oil per 1 gal of fuel is 32:1. A 40:1 mix that the oil injection is providing would be approximately 3.2 ounces of oil per a gallon of fuel. Suddenly you add a couple ounces of oil straight in the tank at 2.38 gal and it is no longer 40:1, but simple math tells me the tank is now 76:1 mix, plus you're 40:1 oil injection...dude, that's insane. That's saturating your fuel vapors with oil, allowing more oxygen to burn at combustion. Sure, you might be lubricating your cylinder, but you're damn near doubling your air in the AFR...what makes fire burn hotter? Oxygen. You add that combination and you're going to burn up your crown, rings and new cylinder unless you've got a temp gauge on the jug and are shutting it down at 110 degrees F.

 

[Rich]

Lol 76:1?Plus a 40:1 that is questionable=?Oboy going to sit this one out lol have fun.

 

[EZRider76]

Lol 76:1?Plus a 40:1 that is questionable=?Oboy going to sit this one out lol have fun.

Do the math Mr. Clymers. if you can't figure the formula I will be happy to tutor you in basic algebra, that way you don't tell someone else it is ok to lean out their mixture like this again.

 

[Rich]

Do the math Mr. Clymers. if you can't figure the formula I will be happy to tutor you in basic algebra, that way you don't tell someone else it is ok to lean out their mixture like this again.

Yes what your saying is the repair manual is wrong and you are right8-|
And your algerbra is way off.Overall it would be more in the range of 25:1But considering the pump does not deliver a constant mix it changes do to enging speed.All im saying is its right here in black and white.And yes I do have a temp readerI:I

 

[Connorfab]

Now the four wheeler idles fine but when I hit te top end area it sounds like it has no power at all.

 

[Quadrider10]

o0k so lets clear up some "myths" of the oil injector.

#1, it ALWAYS runs at a consistant 40:1 ratio, or what ever ratio that is.

picture putting gas into the tank. and only gas, no oil. now put oil in the oil tank for the oil injector. now since the oil injector is geared to the engine, which means there is a gear connecting it to the pump, the faster the engine spins, the faster it pumps oil into the carb to match the ammount of gas that is also entering the carb. as u hit the throttle, more gas flows into the carb, and more gas that flows in means that more oil has to flow in too. so even tho the pump is moving at different speeds, it is always matching the amount of gas that enters the carb. now some reason y it would make the bike run "lean" "rich" or boggy and smokey or not smokey is say ur heading up a steep hill in like 3rd gear. and u start to loose momentum, so u push the throttle harder. that makes more gas get pushed into the engine, but the engine isent running at the proper rpm, and is starting to slow down. since that oil injector is running off the engines speed, that makes for less oil reaching the carb, now u have a mixture that was say 40:1 become 50:1 because of lack of engine speed, less oil, and more gas. same thing goes for down hill in first gear, except it will make it run rich instead of lean. cause if ur at idle, rolling down the hill in 1st, engine speed is fast, which means oil pump is pumping faster, but u onnly have the amount of gas that is your idle speed entering the carb. so instead of 40:1 its more like 32:1
the ratios are over exerated here to show whats happening.

when u premix gas and oil, u ALWAYS have a constant and consistant flow of gas and oil, to the carb. because the carb is the only thing that is delivering the "goods" to the engine. thus oil dosent rely on engine speed.

some of the common problems with the oil injectors is that the most common one is the gear gets stripped, breaks or what have you. some of the other problems is u may be low on oil, and do a wheelie, and that sucktion that is pulling the oil from tank to pump, than pushing it to the carb gets broken, and has air bubles when the oil supply is interupted. also the pump getrs dirty and gets clogged.

 

[Rich]

Now the four wheeler idles fine but when I hit te top end area it sounds like it has no power at all.[/QUOTE
We will need a little more info to help trouble shoot.What have you done so far to get it to idle.Have you gone threw the oil injection as blaaner recomended and have you cleaned any contamination in fuel or jets.How clean is your air filter.This would def.affect top end.

 

[Quadrider10]

Now the four wheeler idles fine but when I hit te top end area it sounds like it has no power at all.

it sounds like a definate air leak to me. thats y u probally also going through multiple top ends. when u bring it to ur friend that does the work, does he use the same gaskets, or does he get brandy new ones?

 

[Connorfab]

He used brand new gaskets an I just put new gas in and it idle fine and ran fine for the bottom end. I'm jut gunna ring it to someone I f*cking hate these peice of sh*t two stroke garbage machines.

 

[Quadrider10]

does the smoke smell bad like burt oil?

 

[Rich]

o0k so lets clear up some "myths" of the oil injector.

#1, it ALWAYS runs at a consistant 40:1 ratio, or what ever ratio that is.

picture putting gas into the tank. and only gas, no oil. now put oil in the oil tank for the oil injector. now since the oil injector is geared to the engine, which means there is a gear connecting it to the pump, the faster the engine spins, the faster it pumps oil into the carb to match the ammount of gas that is also entering the carb. as u hit the throttle, more gas flows into the carb, and more gas that flows in means that more oil has to flow in too. so even tho the pump is moving at different speeds, it is always matching the amount of gas that enters the carb. now some reason y it would make the bike run "lean" "rich" or boggy and smokey or not smokey is say ur heading up a steep hill in like 3rd gear. and u start to loose momentum, so u push the throttle harder. that makes more gas get pushed into the engine, but the engine isent running at the proper rpm, and is starting to slow down. since that oil injector is running off the engines speed, that makes for less oil reaching the carb, now u have a mixture that was say 40:1 become 32:1 because of lack of engine speed, less oil, and more gas. same thing goes for down hill in first gear, except it will make it run rich instead of lean. cause if ur at idle, rolling down the hill in 1st, engine speed is fast, which means oil pump is pumping faster, but u onnly have the amount of gas that is your idle speed entering the carb. so instead of 40:1 its more like 50:1
the ratios are over exerated here to show whats happening.

when u premix gas and oil, u ALWAYS have a constant and consistant flow of gas and oil, to the carb. because the carb is the only thing that is delivering the "goods" to the engine. thus oil dosent rely on engine speed.

some of the common problems with the oil injectors is that the most common one is the gear gets stripped, breaks or what have you. some of the other problems is u may be low on oil, and do a wheelie, and that sucktion that is pulling the oil from tank to pump, than pushing it to the carb gets broken, and has air bubles when the oil supply is interupted. also the pump getrs dirty and gets clogged.

You explained that pretty well.But 32:1 is more oil than 40:1.
32:1 is 4 ounces oil per gallon.40:1 is 3 ounces oil per gallon.50:1 is 2.5 ounces of oil per gallon.

 

[EZRider76]

Yes what your saying is the repair manual is wrong and you are right8-|
And your algerbra is way off.Overall it would be more in the range of 25:1But considering the pump does not deliver a constant mix it changes do to enging speed.All im saying is its right here in black and white.And yes I do have a temp readerI:I

If any manual tells you to lean out your mixture, then hell yes, it is wrong. I'd like to see a little proof that the clymer's states that, scan in the page to a jpg and then post it some where in this forum.

25:1??? How do you get that math? Do you even know what the different values in the ratio stand for and how you calculate them? Trust me, my Algebra is spot on...math is a second language for me.

 

[Rich]

I am not going threw all that trouble over a couple more ounces of oil seriously lol what a dumb thing to argue about anyway over something so mynute.76:1 is like a drop of oil per gallon.

 

[Blaaster]

I am not going threw all that trouble over a couple more ounces of oil seriously lol what a dumb thing to argue about anyway over something so mynute.76:1 is like a drop of oil per gallon.

A lean mixture caused by adding extra oil is by no means a minute matter, it can make for a costly rebuild.

The only dumb thing about the matter, is giving advice to do it.

 

[Rich]

A lean mixture caused by adding extra oil is by no means a minute matter, it can make for a costly rebuild.

The only dumb thing about the matter, is giving advice to do it.

I would not give any advice that would blow some ones motor.I run plenty of brake in fuels that are premix.Like I said you guys are thinking of extreme.Seriously.You guys are hell bent on lean.Ow now your going to blow the motor dur dur durrrr.This will not blow the motor.You act like im dumping in a whole half court of oil in the tank.Give me a brake.Want to get real some people run brake in oil on a leaner setting for a faster brake in.Some are so rich that brake in takes forever.You want to here something real crazy.My friend was a pro mx rider and still rides local.And he will redline that thing and get a good polish on the bore and cut the engine off before it heats up.Thats advice I would not give.But I know I will get critisized for posting that.Please no one do this type of brake in unless your well experienced and have access to a pro and the right temp reading equipment.This is highly not recomended and high chance of blowing a fresh rebuild.But go ahead and critisize away and critisize that adding a few ounces of oil is seriously going to blow your motor.Its dumb to argue over something that willhardly make any difference any way.How do you guys even know to mix it at 32:1 in the first place.Thats not to oem spek any way.IDK whatever I could care less over this arguement.And its off topic any way.Either way does not matter if 50:1 is added for 1 tank any way.In the end gets done the same if you dont add it.Its just what it says in one of them little paragraphs in small print for recomendations in the manual.But its a pain to read threw the whole thing to find it copy it and paste it.

 

[Blaaster]

I would not give any advice that would blow some ones motor.I run plenty of brake in fuels that are premix.Like I said you guys are thinking of extreme.Seriously.You guys are hell bent on lean.Ow now your going to blow the motor dur dur durrrr.This will not blow the motor.You act like im dumping in a whole half court of oil in the tank.Give me a brake.Want to get real some people run brake in oil on a leaner setting for a faster brake in.Some are so rich that brake in takes forever.You want to here something real crazy.My friend was a pro mx rider and still rides local.And he will redline that thing and get a good polish on the bore and cut the engine off before it heats up.Thats advice I would not give.But I know I will get critisized for posting that.Please no one do this type of brake in unless your well experienced and have access to a pro and the right temp reading equipment.This is highly not recomended and high chance of blowing a fresh rebuild.But go ahead and critisize away and critisize that adding a few ounces of oil is seriously going to blow your motor.Its dumb to argue over something that willhardly make any difference any way.How do you guys even know to mix it at 32:1 in the first place.Thats not to oem spek any way.

You did that in your post when you stated that it was not nessesary to do a plug chop to get proper jetting, if i recall it correctly you stated that you could tell by the way it felt and by the amount of smoke coming out of the exhaust!

Wait , no I was nearly right what you stated was..

Originally Posted by Rich
You dont need to do a plug chop.I can tell you how your engine is running just by looking at the plug and verify the amount of smoke comming out of your exhaust.?

 

[EZRider76]

I would not give any advice that would blow some ones motor.I run plenty of brake in fuels that are premix.Like I said you guys are thinking of extreme.Seriously.You guys are hell bent on lean.Ow now your going to blow the motor dur dur durrrr.This will not blow the motor.You act like im dumping in a whole half court of oil in the tank.Give me a brake.Want to get real some people run brake in oil on a leaner setting for a faster brake in.Some are so rich that brake in takes forever.You want to here something real crazy.My friend was a pro mx rider and still rides local.And he will redline that thing and get a good polish on the bore and cut the engine off before it heats up.Thats advice I would not give.But I know I will get critisized for posting that.Please no one do this type of brake in unless your well experienced and have access to a pro and the right temp reading equipment.This is highly not recomended and high chance of blowing a fresh rebuild.But go ahead and critisize away and critisize that adding a few ounces of oil is seriously going to blow your motor.Its dumb to argue over something that willhardly make any difference any way.How do you guys even know to mix it at 32:1 in the first place.Thats not to oem spek any way.IDK whatever I could care less over this arguement.And its off topic any way.Either way does not matter if 50:1 is added for 1 tank any way.In the end gets done the same if you dont add it.Its just what it says in one of them little paragraphs in small print for recomendations in the manual.But its a pain to read threw the whole thing to find it copy it and paste it.

The issue is simple, you're on here giving questionable advice and arguing with people who are giving sound advice. Let your friend do what he wants to do, he isn't telling people to do it that way and risking them FUBARing up their rides. Mixing is not a minute issue, you over heat your crown, rings and bearings and you're starting over.

 

[Rich]

Yeah not sh*t I about sh*t my pants when he broke my bike in.But 12 years later and no rebuild yet.But I would not advise someone to do it.I understand where your coming from with leaning the fuel.All I am saying is this is what I read directly from the manual and advise that is comming from a repair manual is wrong so you say.And your thowing in crazy missleading fuel to oil mix ratios that are wrong.While in reality its only adding a few ounces to the tank.If we used your 76:1 thats no oil at all.

And yes blaaster I do not do plug chops when tunning my carb.I do the ride and feel method and come on to forums and get advise from manufacture on good starting points.I am not saying plug chops are wrong I just dont do it.And no plug chopes are not in the manual.You can read a plug with out cutting it.You can read a piston as well.But like you said if someone has no clue on jetting it would be wrong for me to advise not to do this.I should not dissadvise not to do a chop at all period.Ive learned to agree with you on that one.But if you ask if I do it this way its no.Its by ride and feel.There are to many variations that are hands on.I will admit I dont have the skill of book and txt that you have but I have the knowledge of hands on and Im mechanicaly inclined.I allways have a reference guide to read up on.So do all mechanics.

 

[EZRider76]

Yeah not sh*t I about sh*t my pants when he broke my bike in.But 12 years later and no rebuild yet.But I would not advise someone to do it.I understand where your coming from with leaning the fuel.All I am saying is this is what I read directly from the manual.And your thowing in crazy missleading fue to oil mix ratios that are wrong.While in reality its only adding a few ounces to the tank.If we used your 76:1 thats no oil at all.

And yes blaaster I do not do plug chops when tunning my carb.I do the ride and feel method and come on to forums and get advise from manufacture on good starting points.I am not saying plug chops are wrong I just dont do it.And no plug chopes are not in the manual.You can read a plug with out cutting it.You can read a piston as well.But like you said if someone has no clue on jetting it would be wrong for me to advise not to do this.I should not dissadvise not to do a chop at all period.Ive learned to agree with you on that one.But if you ask if I do it this way its no.Its by ride and feel.There are to many variations that are hands on.

Ok, I'll let you off the hook a little because now you know we aren't just picking on you for sport. I also want to give you a little insight, so please take this as a peace offering.

I'll give you some props Rich, my math was wrong, but not in the direction you were thinking. I forgot I divided a number by 2. Adding 2 ounces to the tanks is about 150:1, not 76:1. It's real simple, 128oz in a gallon of fluid, divided by 4oz of another fluid and you have a 32:1 ratio. A fuel tank on a Blaster is 2.38 gallons or roughly 300oz of fuel, add 2 oz of oil to that and you get roughly 150:1...richer than 76:1, but still dangerous if you want to give advice to someone trying to get their ride going because added to the injection system, it is leaning out the mixture 150:1.

As for the book, here is the problem with it...and trust me I have background in this. Any technical manual is written by a non-technical "writer", but they call themselves "Technical Writers". Their position is so mundane and worthless to a company, because the books get published for public knowledge and it takes away from service techs job, so the company usually either hands them an intern or a entry level engineer for technical information and verification. The information that goes into these "repair" manuals, other than spec. measurements and part numbers, is someone writing up what they "recommend" and they usually don't have any hands on time with the machine. That is why people here don't reference or really respect a clymers, except for spec. measurements and part numbers....most guys on here have grease under their nails and have played mad scientist trying different setups. If the clymers was written and plublished by Yamaha and called "The Yamaha", well, then it would have a little more clout, but you still have the issue of a "Technical Writer" and entry level **cough, cough** Engineer.

Just please be careful, because as you know... we are watching. I:I

 

[EZRider76]

And quit going back and editing your posts, that just makes you look like a douche bag when we quote you.