The build has begun!
- Thread starter callmej75
- Start date
Thanks alot man! You've been great help...I'm just hoping the front with the extended a arms is a bolt on....
Oh...one more question. Got some used works front shocks. How easy, after taking the spring off, should it be to push those in? They are considerably easier than what the rear 400 ex shock is, but of course I don't know what the compression is set at on the EX shock neither. Just wondering if the fronts may need a rebuild...
Oh...one more question. Got some used works front shocks. How easy, after taking the spring off, should it be to push those in? They are considerably easier than what the rear 400 ex shock is, but of course I don't know what the compression is set at on the EX shock neither. Just wondering if the fronts may need a rebuild...
they should be pretty easy.. The nice thing about works is you can buy the valving. I have ordered new pistons from them before with different valving and it was pretty cheap.
They were valved for a 170lb. rider on a Banshee...so with that added extra weight, they should be fine for my 200lbs. Didn't know you could order the valving from works...we'll tackle that another day because I feel you have done that before a few times as well...
heheeh...take now that you have different frontshocks, pop the spring off one of the stockers tomorrow and put it back on then measure the wheel travel... Bet its no where near close to 7.1 inches......
Hmm....you're just a wealth of knowledge! I'll experiment for a good laugh...oh and plus the works are dual rate so that alone makes the shocks spring up a little farther? As far as dual rate goes...what makes the big difference? One has a different strength than the other spring? I'm not understanding the terminology about dual rate shocks...or triple rate for that concern!
I wish you did live closer because we would do some good experimenting...and come up with a wicked swingarm design!
I saw where they made gussets for the frame for the Blaster...I was gonna make my own with that spider web design in the corners since I have a nice chunk of plate steel just lying around! Just a little dremel work..good thing i got 2 dremels because If one went out i would be SOL! Haha
I wish you did live closer because we would do some good experimenting...and come up with a wicked swingarm design!
I saw where they made gussets for the frame for the Blaster...I was gonna make my own with that spider web design in the corners since I have a nice chunk of plate steel just lying around! Just a little dremel work..good thing i got 2 dremels because If one went out i would be SOL! Haha
OK...springs serve a few different functions. Ride height, rebound and to a MUCH lesser extent compression. You need enough spring to set the ride height where you need it and enough spring to reextend the suspension. The shock VALVING is what really controls how fast it compresses and how fast it rebounds. Srings do have a greater effect in controling body roll when turning.
Multiple rate systems have a heavier main spring and softer secondary springs. if you look at your works, there is an metal ring that floats on the shock inside the smaller spring. The height of the ring controls the crossover point. The softer spring will always compress first, once it hits the crossover point the softer spring will no longer compress and makes the bigger stiffer spring do all the work. So by changing crossovers you can change where the spring rate changes.
Now when you get into long travel situations, you can also use a really soft small spring, what that will do is let that soft spring compress to give you your ride height. this works when you are designing a lot of sag into the suspension. THis is called droop suspension, if you look at baja trucks on youtube, the truck itself seems to float while the wheels bounce all over the place, then when they catch air, the wheels fall away from the truck revealing huge wheel travel. All this allows the wheels to fllow the terrain bettter giving better traction and control while giving a smoother ride. Much different than the old stiff suspension to take the bike hits theroy.
Off road truck shocks are alot different than atv shocks. they run an atv type shock with springs on it to control ride height and rebound, but the main shock that does all the work is the bypass shock. Your shock works by forcing oil thru the valving. The bypass shock has very stiff valving bit it also has tubes welded to the outside with spring/check balls. each tube controls a specific part of the shocks travel, so you can have several inches around ride height that is really softly valved so the wheels can move easily over small bumps because the shock oil is bypassed thru the tube. Once you get passed the baypass the shocj gets much stiffer because you hit a bigger bump. Same with rebound. when you bottom out you want a slower rebound so you dont bounce as the shock extends, but on little bumps you want a fast rebound so the wheel follows the terrain.
See how low this thing sits?? then look at it in the air
Multiple rate systems have a heavier main spring and softer secondary springs. if you look at your works, there is an metal ring that floats on the shock inside the smaller spring. The height of the ring controls the crossover point. The softer spring will always compress first, once it hits the crossover point the softer spring will no longer compress and makes the bigger stiffer spring do all the work. So by changing crossovers you can change where the spring rate changes.
Now when you get into long travel situations, you can also use a really soft small spring, what that will do is let that soft spring compress to give you your ride height. this works when you are designing a lot of sag into the suspension. THis is called droop suspension, if you look at baja trucks on youtube, the truck itself seems to float while the wheels bounce all over the place, then when they catch air, the wheels fall away from the truck revealing huge wheel travel. All this allows the wheels to fllow the terrain bettter giving better traction and control while giving a smoother ride. Much different than the old stiff suspension to take the bike hits theroy.
Off road truck shocks are alot different than atv shocks. they run an atv type shock with springs on it to control ride height and rebound, but the main shock that does all the work is the bypass shock. Your shock works by forcing oil thru the valving. The bypass shock has very stiff valving bit it also has tubes welded to the outside with spring/check balls. each tube controls a specific part of the shocks travel, so you can have several inches around ride height that is really softly valved so the wheels can move easily over small bumps because the shock oil is bypassed thru the tube. Once you get passed the baypass the shocj gets much stiffer because you hit a bigger bump. Same with rebound. when you bottom out you want a slower rebound so you dont bounce as the shock extends, but on little bumps you want a fast rebound so the wheel follows the terrain.
See how low this thing sits?? then look at it in the air
Yeh i noticed the small retaining rings that sits in grooves on the shock main body where the shock rests on the coupler. I was wondering if i changed this, then it would affect the ride quality over certain terrains.
Good writeup though...i once had a 4Runner that i was going to do a coilover SAS on for better flexibility on trails and better ride quality vs the old leaf spring design. I'm pretty familiar with those setups...but not too in depth as you are.
Good writeup though...i once had a 4Runner that i was going to do a coilover SAS on for better flexibility on trails and better ride quality vs the old leaf spring design. I'm pretty familiar with those setups...but not too in depth as you are.
So I measured the 400EX rear shock and it measures out at almost 15 1/2" eye to eye. With my current location of the shock mount on the swingarm, would this longer shock make for another 2" of travel?
1985 HONDA CR250 CR 250 REAR MONO SHOCK #2 : eBay Motors (item 280346596419 end time Apr-11-10 17:02:49 PDT)
Not wanting this rear shock because it needs alot done to it...but for the sake of it all? I know it would allow for more droop...
1985 HONDA CR250 CR 250 REAR MONO SHOCK #2 : eBay Motors (item 280346596419 end time Apr-11-10 17:02:49 PDT)
Not wanting this rear shock because it needs alot done to it...but for the sake of it all? I know it would allow for more droop...
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Gotcha....so say this 250R would be a good buy
1985 ATC 250R TRX 250R Rear Shock Nice! NR! : eBay Motors (item 250609062701 end time Apr-10-10 10:16:30 PDT)
1985 ATC 250R TRX 250R Rear Shock Nice! NR! : eBay Motors (item 250609062701 end time Apr-10-10 10:16:30 PDT)
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yeah, but idealy you want a trx shock not an atc shock. the 86 shock was longer, first half of 87 model year, the shock was shortened internally, 2nd half of 87 thru 89 they are all same length with a slightly shorter body. the best and easiest to set up would be an 86 body with an 88-99 guts. the 250r shocks work better for a long travel setup than the 400ex. if you can get that shock cheap, it will make you happy and probably add to your travel numbers a bit.
Ah...so this is what you are referring to?
HONDA 250R 250 R TRX250R TRX REAR SHOCK SPRING 86 : eBay Motors (item 270554906371 end time Apr-07-10 18:08:00 PDT)
So say if I was to get this, put it at the exact point where i have the 400EX set up right now at, I would have a little more travel? I am guessing an inch would matter on the track...but trails and every day riding it really wouldn't matter for just an inch or so, right? Or would it matter quite a bit...
HONDA 250R 250 R TRX250R TRX REAR SHOCK SPRING 86 : eBay Motors (item 270554906371 end time Apr-07-10 18:08:00 PDT)
So say if I was to get this, put it at the exact point where i have the 400EX set up right now at, I would have a little more travel? I am guessing an inch would matter on the track...but trails and every day riding it really wouldn't matter for just an inch or so, right? Or would it matter quite a bit...
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if you have a 400 shock on there right now, that 86 would give you 1~2" more travel, which would make a nice difference.. it doesnt seem like much but it is.
That's the answer i was looking for....
One thing about this thread...informative all the way around...and the info is mainly trusted info as well!
I may throw in a bid on that shock...
One thing about this thread...informative all the way around...and the info is mainly trusted info as well!
I may throw in a bid on that shock...
Took a shot of the stock shock vs the 400EX on travel. Notice the difference in shock bodies....even though the spring is off of the 400EX, the shock bodies are noticeably different, plus the stock shock isn't exactly at the same angle as the 400 EX making it appear longer than what it is.
So Imagine what the 250R shock would look in comparison to the stocker?
So Imagine what the 250R shock would look in comparison to the stocker?
Well instead of using the stock location on mine, I'm fabricating my own so mine will have adequate stance, but not overkill.
My 400EX shock may be up for sale soon..
My 400EX shock may be up for sale soon..
this thread has some nice info in it, phragle man you know you suspension
cant wait to see the pc work man get busy lol
cant wait to see the pc work man get busy lol
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