Question for those that have or currently are running advanced timing

Timing is a 4D event not just 3D. Think of not only physical placement of the components but how those components are moving in time. So the comparison of equal distances from the piston crown to the spark plug electrode aren't taking into account the timing of the event, only the distance of the event away from one another.

But in your example, retarding the timing 4 deg (or however much you would to get the imaginary 18cm distance) would actually put the timing event closer to TDC and later on in the stroke putting the explosion catching the piston.

Shaving the head to get the 18 cm means that the piston is the same distance away from the electrode but at a different time during the stroke.

Yea, I know that, but the end result is still the same.....

The plug fires with the piston being 18mm away in both cases. The only difference is that in first case you are moving the head/plug down by milling it, but in the other case you are moving the piston up by retarding the timing.
:-/
 
Not necessarily either.

Another process to cutting the head is to reshape it where the fuel and air charge is centered better around the spark plug. The expansion that takes place to drive the piston downward begins (hopefully) when the spark plug begins to fire and ends (more or less in a 2 stroke) as the exhaust port is opened. If that expansion is centered in the middle of the piston then the explosion "hits" the piston sooner too. Instead of the explosion having to reach out and fill the entire cylinder with expanding gasses before the piston starts getting pushed down, the gasses are pre-concentrated in the middle of the cylinder. The flame has less distance to travel to burn up all available fuel and air, and the expansion that takes place has less room to expand into before it begins to "punch" the piston.

All factors in engine building and perhaps moving the spark plug (down towards the piston) is not the main reason why they say a recut head advances timing... I'm not completely sure.

I mean, it makes sense that as the piston is getting closer towards the top of it's stroke, the closer the spark plug is, the sooner the fire will reach the piston but maybe it's also the refocusing of the charge that's doing some of the work too.
 
Not necessarily either.

Another process to cutting the head is to reshape it where the fuel and air charge is centered better around the spark plug. The expansion that takes place to drive the piston downward begins (hopefully) when the spark plug begins to fire and ends (more or less in a 2 stroke) as the exhaust port is opened. If that expansion is centered in the middle of the piston then the explosion "hits" the piston sooner too. Instead of the explosion having to reach out and fill the entire cylinder with expanding gasses before the piston starts getting pushed down, the gasses are pre-concentrated in the middle of the cylinder. The flame has less distance to travel to burn up all available fuel and air, and the expansion that takes place has less room to expand into before it begins to "punch" the piston.

All factors in engine building and perhaps moving the spark plug (down towards the piston) is not the main reason why they say a recut head advances timing... I'm not completely sure.

I mean, it makes sense that as the piston is getting closer towards the top of it's stroke, the closer the spark plug is, the sooner the fire will reach the piston but maybe it's also the refocusing of the charge that's doing some of the work too.

Hard saying. :D

I've just never seen anything that indicates milling a head will advance the timing based on what I've looked into. I kind of think it might be folklore since people associate the two on terms of "both need higher octane fuels", but this isn't always the case and they are in no way related to each other.

I'm always free to be corrected where I stand though. I:I

It's just in my opinion based on what I've seen and read, it seems that if you have a milled head, you actually BENEFIT more by running advanced timing(and more advanced timing) than a stock head as you are now giving more room/time for the air/fuel mixture to deflagrate......closer to the stock head amount of time after advancing timing since on a milled head, the plug will be closer anyways. In some ways, I would almost think it would be almost necessary to advance timing on a milled head as you spark earlier to compensate for the deflagration space you lost when you milled the head....but as you said, a lot of the heads are rechambered and the CC domes they run vary.

Disclaimer: All of this is taking into the fact that the timing being advanced would be beneficial in the first place. There's no need to change timing if it's already in the perfect location when it sparks. :D
 
Alright, here goes...

Awk is talking about increasing timing by shaving the head. The spark plug sparks in relation to crankshaft position so unless you change the stator plate (do a timing mod) the spark plug will spark at the same time each time. But, you have to remember what the crankshaft is doing while it's also telling the ignition system when to spark, it's moving that piston (or face as you made the analogy) upwards as well.

Now imagine the face analogy, if you're getting punched in the face and you're worried about timing.... don't you think changing the position of the puncher would have an affect on the punchee? Lowering the spark plug by shaving the head by 2mm on an engine with 57mm of stroke is like advancing the timing 1.5 degrees (or something like that) even without touching the timing plate...

Also, the reason timing has less of an effect on the top speed or top end of a 2 stroke is because of the maximum volumetric efficiency of the top end with a given expansion chamber.

2 strokes are naturally self limiting because the efficiency of the cylinder drops dramatically as you get out of the tuned range of the head pipe.

If you were only worried about power at top end, you'd order a drag pipe with specs tuned to 10,500 RPM and run +6-10 degress of timing advance. Then the timing advance would work at those high RPM's.

Also, the CDI box on the blaster has it's own timing advance which moving the timing plate may have an adverse affect on which cannot be characterized so easily. The CDI box might be dead on the money as far as advance goes above 4K rpm but be a little "off-tuned" at lower RPM's. Moving the timing plate forward 4 degrees gets the timing right where the stock timing is wrong but it actually over-advances at the upper RPM's making the timing not "optimized" at the upper RPM range. I don't know for sure, but it's definitely a possiblity.

you can read minds brother:)
 
This is why I haven't change my adjustable stator to anything. If going to plus +2 is going to make the engine get hotter and most likely give it a faster low end I'm not going to do it. I guess it just for people with milled heads and all types of engine work to get it to run right after those things are done. ...But I have something for 99LRDblaster where you can get more power, better economy, more complete fuel burn and reduced emissions dam I sound like a commercial.....E3 Spark Plug Flame Kernel Shape | Spark Plugs | Automotive Spark Plug These even seem to advance your timing because it the burn is faster kind of like when you advance the timing..... And for all you haters who want to say something about this just don't put that energy into finding products like this that everyone can use and benefit from...lol
 
I too have a +4 timing advance. I have a procircuit pipe, which is a mid pipe anyway. The timing mod really improves the throttle response on the snap throttle changes. I noticed some hesitation and "build-up" when slamming the throttle open that the timing modification took care of.
 
This is why I haven't change my adjustable stator to anything. If going to plus +2 is going to make the engine get hotter and most likely give it a faster low end I'm not going to do it. I guess it just for people with milled heads and all types of engine work to get it to run right after those things are done. ...But I have something for 99LRDblaster where you can get more power, better economy, more complete fuel burn and reduced emissions dam I sound like a commercial.....E3 Spark Plug Flame Kernel Shape | Spark Plugs | Automotive Spark Plug These even seem to advance your timing because it the burn is faster kind of like when you advance the timing..... And for all you haters who want to say something about this just don't put that energy into finding products like this that everyone can use and benefit from...lol

pretty interesting, makes sense on how it burns.....have u tried these plugs?
 
Back when we use to race mini quads there was a timing. Up grade called a pvl ignition it advances your timing on take off and. And. Puts it back after you have it wide open I haven't seen it for the blasterthat is definitely a good up grader
 
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Back when we use to race mini quads there was a timing. Up grade called a pvl ignition it advances your timing on take off and. And. Puts it back after you have it wide open I haven't seen it for the blasterthat is definitely a good up grader

Thats what Im talking about pvl ignition. What are some more of the bad things about running advance timing besides heat up the engine more..sick frame acezeesawtooth . what is that gold powder coat.... And yes blasterfreek30 I have this spark plugs in my s 10 truck and they work great... I know I get more mpg even when I'm trailing my blaster for 2 hours . I can feel the power is always there. i even threw it in a snow blower where it started to use less gas and turned it into a beast. I just picked up some more for my blaster and my streetbike . ... I can wait till I try it in the blaster .... lol
 
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Thats what Im talking about pvl ignition. What are some more of the bad things about running advance timing besides heat up the engine more..sick frame acezeesawtooth . what is that gold powder coat.... And yes blasterfreek30 I have this spark plugs in my s 10 truck and they work great... I know I get more mpg even when I'm trailing my blaster for 2 hours . I can feel the power is always there. i even threw it in a snow blower where it started to use less gas and turned it into a beast. I just picked up some more for my blaster and my streetbike . ... I can wait till try it in the blaster .... lol

Nothing aside from the extra stress it puts on the engine simply from increased performance, but at that notion, putting a pipe on does the same thing. With any increase in performance, it puts inherent stress on the engine....just the way it works. Does that mean you couldn't ride it for 5 years and never have a problem?.....yea........but it will just wear faster and probably need stuff replaced in 5 years as opposed to 6.
 
I barely have $500 in my whole quad!! wish they had a cheaper version. . .

Doubt you will see that anytime soon. If they made a simple system that was already built specifically for your quad, it could be done, but stuff like that for the general aftermarket is a pretty intensive stuff and major $$$.......however, when you think about it, you are tuning the engine to a T at all RPMs as far as timing for the optimal output. You can change your power, and increase it throughout the entire curve....brains don't come cheap. :D