Very simple ratio selector, 2 choices 16:1 or 20:1 and the choice of oil was Castrol XL, Castrol XL, Castrol XL or Castrol XL.
I'm going back to the yamaha "auto lube" oil injection! Why? Because it works!!!
- Thread starter joeak47
- Start date
Our footlongs are 20 to 30 bucks, ofcourse thats in RandsI:IActually I think the $5 foot longs are $5.65 now. I'll go check.
Studies show two strokes have max power at around 18:1 because the oil helps the rigs seal in the cylinder
In 2 strokes under 200cc a 25:1 mix will increase compression a little over 32:1, therefore more power.
Motors of 150cc and under require an oil concentration of around 16:1 or more to fully lubricate.
A larger motor of about 400cc or greater can safely be run with much less oil 50 even 80:1 as they rev less and do no require as much oil for complete lubrication.
Studies also show that 18:1 is a waste of oil, $ for that oil, the cause of fouled plugs, lots of smoke, and oil soaked silencer packing.
Well the autolube runs at 20: 1 which is almost 18:1 and i doubt yamaha would make a system that fouls plugs all the time
The Blaster injects the oil according to rpm, not fuel, so it will never have a fixed ratio. My guess the 20:1 figure is a maximum, which would happen at idle or coasting or mid-rpm cruising or where ever it was defined. As you open the throttle and apply more fuel, the rpm based injection will stay fixed and the mixture ratio will lean out. This is not a bad thing.
DT200 oil injector is both rpm and throttle sensitive, getting around this experience. I can tell you from experience the DT200 is quite frugal on oil. One problem with premix is that the engine leans out on oil during coast. This is a problem injected engines do not have.
The only "study" that I read was Gordon Jennings back in the early 70s doing a test on castor oil. It was a good test, but a lot has changed over the years. Rings, plating, piston materials and oil have changed a lot. I would like to see any newer studies that you may have links to.
Steve
DT200 oil injector is both rpm and throttle sensitive, getting around this experience. I can tell you from experience the DT200 is quite frugal on oil. One problem with premix is that the engine leans out on oil during coast. This is a problem injected engines do not have.
The only "study" that I read was Gordon Jennings back in the early 70s doing a test on castor oil. It was a good test, but a lot has changed over the years. Rings, plating, piston materials and oil have changed a lot. I would like to see any newer studies that you may have links to.
Steve
You read that right! I've had lots of fun pre-mixing different types and brands of two stroke oil over part of the summer. I don't mind pre-mixing. I removed the system,because I wanted to experiment with different oils and ratios. I wanted to see if there was a power increase like folks say there is. It was very educational. It smelled nice too!
I however,COULD NOT FIND ANY "distinct advantage" over the yamaha "AutoLube" oil injection system. I'm now running "Maxima Super M Injector oil". Great stuff!
I know what your all thinking...
#1 "The nylon drive gear breaks all the time".........,no it doesn't. Show me.
#2 "The oil pumps fail all the time" ......... No they don't. Show me.
#3 "My bike seized because I had the oil injection" ..Bullshit, fill the oil tank.
#4 "There are lots of parts that fail ALL the time".........Yeah right,whatever
#5 "You CAN'T run it with porting,pipe and head mods... Want to Bet???
#6 "Theyre isn't any good "High Quality" injector oils ....Ignorance is bliss.
#7 "It weighs alot"...............No more than that $5 foot long you just ate.
#8 "You get more power when you pre-mix"... No you don't.
Anyway,I've had my fun with pre-mixing. Nothing wrong with that. I do like the convenience of oil injection,and I also like the fact that the "Auto lube" is still doing its thing on long down hills without having to crack open the throttle for more lube.
I believe that going with either "Pre-mix",or "Yamaha's Auto Lube Injection" is just personal preference. Oil injection is mine. Oil injection is for me.
It was easy to take off,or swap back on. I'm glad its back on.
The funnest oil to play with was "castor oil" affectionally known as "bean oil"
Awesome ring seal when using this stuff... But, if mixed in a heavy ratio like 24 to 1 (one example...I tried many ratios) it can and will collect on "Screen type" spark arrestors and clog them,so don't get too happy with the fuel to oil ratio. Excess castor oil doesn't burn very well.
As a last note,I can say that all the two stroke oils I tried were quality oils. Expensive,but well worth it.
My blaster is a 1988 (first year the blaster came out) and the pump has never failed! I love having it hooked up and not having to worry about mixing the right amount of oil into my fuel. The only bummer is I want to put a 28mm carb on it but I cant seem to find a carb that is oil injection ready
You can add a nipple. Will it suffice? not my cup of tea since I run premix but I knw you can surely add a nipple to the carb. My thinking is the larger carb =xtra air/fuel into the engine there for maybe not an efficient ratio to what the pump spits out ??? the pump works on rpm and is set for a 26mm carb. Now that said it does indeed work fine for modified engines as well (increased air/fuel through the engine) ??? I remember reading a post on this not long ago. If I find it I will post it.. Out of curiosity,, why the larger carb? Btw you can bore the stock 26mm blaster carb to around 27mm maybe a tad more. Plus that already has the nipple built in .. <<< that's what I would do instead of spending the $$ on a new 28. I would bore the stocker for just a couple bucks.. Jmo though..
Yeah I just found out that I can bore the carb. never knew you could do that! I still have mine hooked up with a full fmf exhaust, v force 4 and a k and n air filter. never have had a problem with it. The reason why I want a bigger carb is I'm porting my head by Ken and am looking for maximum power while staying with the stock bore. I've been riding with someone who has a raptor 660 and if the trail is winding all over the place I can keep up but if I hit a long stretch she fly's right past me under power. The blasters top speed is plenty fast hit 61mph on Sunday. I just want more power out of the hole so I don't fall behind while accelerating as much.
What you want can be accomplished with porting and head re-chambering! Its money well spent, and you still have the reliability which is important. My advice is to get the porting and head re-chambering, and use the stock 26mm mikuni carb with the oil injection. You will be very surprised how it runs! Scary actually. You can always go to a bigger cab later on if you feel the need. The stock carb keeps the air velocity up, which helps force air into the engine. It also makes it easier to tune. Trust me I know what I'm talking about.
No matter what size carb you use with the oil injection it will deliver adequate oil to the engine.
No matter what amount of air is pulled through the carb, the injection ratio will stay constant at around 20:1 an excellent ratio for a 200cc engine.
With injection the oil is dribbled into the airstream and pools in the bottom of the crankcase to be distributed by moving parts.
Oil injection also allows you to operate at WOT for longer periods as the oil does not need time to come out of suspension as it does with premix.
No matter what amount of air is pulled through the carb, the injection ratio will stay constant at around 20:1 an excellent ratio for a 200cc engine.
With injection the oil is dribbled into the airstream and pools in the bottom of the crankcase to be distributed by moving parts.
Oil injection also allows you to operate at WOT for longer periods as the oil does not need time to come out of suspension as it does with premix.
Talked to Ken this morning, He's going to bore the carb out, bore and port the head for me. This way I feel I don't need to do any air box modifications and I still have my oil injection hookup on the carb. this should give me the extra kick I've been looking for!
This chatter about oil ratios is very interesting. My understanding is the gear driven oil pump will deliver a precise amount of oil per revolution of the engine. This is theoretically ideal. However when you take off the cover, put on a pipe, have ken port your cylinder, get a rechambered head or whatever, You need more fuel!! You put larger jets in your carb and start doing plug chops but WAIT. Your still only getting this precise(but now too little) amount of oil. The actual oil ratio is variable and excessive to accomodate for longevity, some ignorance, and to hold spec with only a stock setup.
Your oil injection will not accomodate anything but a stock system.
I agree oil injection is great, with waverunners and outboards. With blasters we run 32:1 and do plug chops. It's seems the only way to know for certain.
Tell me if I'm wrong
Your oil injection will not accomodate anything but a stock system.
I agree oil injection is great, with waverunners and outboards. With blasters we run 32:1 and do plug chops. It's seems the only way to know for certain.
Tell me if I'm wrong
/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ Your wrong...
What you said makes no sense. Yes... after modifications your engine will need more fuel to compensate for the added air the engine now consumes, but that's your air to fuel ratio. Proper jetting gets you into the "happy spot" where you should be... not too lean and not to fat. The lubricating oil in an oil injected engine delivers the correct amount of oil regardless of how your jetting is. The stock oil injection system gets blamed a lot when an engine failure happens because of a lean condition caused by improper jetting (operator error).
I've been running my blaster for a few years now with a ported cylinder with boysen ports and transfer ports matched to the case, re-chambered high compression "Hemi" head cc'ed to 20cc's, piped with a DMC alien, "squish" set at I believe .030, V Force III reeds, STOCK oil injected mikuni VN26 carb that is properly jetted, and the STOCK rubber air boot from the carb all the way back to under the seat with a two stage UNI filter, and it running around 32HP with ZERO issues what so ever.
The oil injection system has absolutely no problem running with this "package". Its extremely reliable, and works perfectly. The plastic gear that drives the pump does not break, and I've NEVER had an oil pump failure regardless what you have probably read on the internet. I removed the oil pump and ran pre-mix for a while just to experiment with different oils, but after I was done, I put the oil pump right back on and have been happier ever since.
The stock oil injection system is well thought out, and has no problem running a modified blaster engine. I have no reason to make things up... Everything I've mentioned comes from real world testing on my own blaster. I know what I'm talking about. Most folks like to pre-mix and that's cool too, but I prefer the oil injection on my blaster.
The oil tank last a long time... about 3 to 4 tanks of fuel per fill of the oil tank, all depending if your riding on the needle, or riding on the jet. As Blaster8821 mentioned, its nice to go to the gas station and just "fill up". As an added plus, you can always experiment with larger carbs later on, but the mikuni VM 26 is a snap to tune because of higher air velocity that runs through it verses a larger car. Boring the stock carb a millimeter bigger is a great way to help out the top end pull when on the pipe. Just for the record...I run "Maxima Super M Injector oil".
What you said makes no sense. Yes... after modifications your engine will need more fuel to compensate for the added air the engine now consumes, but that's your air to fuel ratio. Proper jetting gets you into the "happy spot" where you should be... not too lean and not to fat. The lubricating oil in an oil injected engine delivers the correct amount of oil regardless of how your jetting is. The stock oil injection system gets blamed a lot when an engine failure happens because of a lean condition caused by improper jetting (operator error).
I've been running my blaster for a few years now with a ported cylinder with boysen ports and transfer ports matched to the case, re-chambered high compression "Hemi" head cc'ed to 20cc's, piped with a DMC alien, "squish" set at I believe .030, V Force III reeds, STOCK oil injected mikuni VN26 carb that is properly jetted, and the STOCK rubber air boot from the carb all the way back to under the seat with a two stage UNI filter, and it running around 32HP with ZERO issues what so ever.
The oil injection system has absolutely no problem running with this "package". Its extremely reliable, and works perfectly. The plastic gear that drives the pump does not break, and I've NEVER had an oil pump failure regardless what you have probably read on the internet. I removed the oil pump and ran pre-mix for a while just to experiment with different oils, but after I was done, I put the oil pump right back on and have been happier ever since.
The stock oil injection system is well thought out, and has no problem running a modified blaster engine. I have no reason to make things up... Everything I've mentioned comes from real world testing on my own blaster. I know what I'm talking about. Most folks like to pre-mix and that's cool too, but I prefer the oil injection on my blaster.
The oil tank last a long time... about 3 to 4 tanks of fuel per fill of the oil tank, all depending if your riding on the needle, or riding on the jet. As Blaster8821 mentioned, its nice to go to the gas station and just "fill up". As an added plus, you can always experiment with larger carbs later on, but the mikuni VM 26 is a snap to tune because of higher air velocity that runs through it verses a larger car. Boring the stock carb a millimeter bigger is a great way to help out the top end pull when on the pipe. Just for the record...I run "Maxima Super M Injector oil".
Well put Joe, it is great to read something written by someone who knows what they are talking about.
The injection system delivers the correct amount of oil for the engine it is designed to operate on.
Deletion of the injection system should only be considered when you choose to use a different ratio or an oil which is non injectable, such as Castor blends.
The injection system delivers the correct amount of oil for the engine it is designed to operate on.
Deletion of the injection system should only be considered when you choose to use a different ratio or an oil which is non injectable, such as Castor blends.
@ Joeak47, have you ever emptied out an oil tank to see how much if any dirt is in the bottom? Not flaming and I know you are meticulis with cleaning cap/tank before fill. Just wonder if any actually gets past the filter at the cap, as dust is everwhere.
Was actually reading this yesterday but never finished, but had a thought. How long would it take for enough oil to back flow from the pump to actually get a air bubble in the line? I know awk mentioned flipping, righting, and riding on. Yrs ago (okay, decades) my friends and I had injected dirt bikes and would thrash, trash, and crash and never had problems.
Was actually reading this yesterday but never finished, but had a thought. How long would it take for enough oil to back flow from the pump to actually get a air bubble in the line? I know awk mentioned flipping, righting, and riding on. Yrs ago (okay, decades) my friends and I had injected dirt bikes and would thrash, trash, and crash and never had problems.
For the same reasons YZs didn't, weight on a race bike. They didn't put the powervalves from the RZ street bike engine either. The boss for the tach and neutral safety switch are still on the engine.
Does anyone know if Phragle used injection or mix for his bike?
No offense taken...I've seen two oil tanks that were dirty. Meaning a dark area in the bottom of the tank by the nipple. The nipple does sit a millimeter or two off the bottom of the tank to keep stuff from getting in the line. Anything is possible. My tank is obviously nice and clean, but someone that is in a hurry, or just doesn't care could get junk in there. If the bike was flipped and left there a while before riding on could have a chance of getting a bubble in the line. I just know what has worked for me.
My buddy's daughter has a blaster that I fitted with a new piston to and re-chamber a head for. It runs oil injection too. His daughter road it constantly for about a year and ran like a watch. It then sat for about four months in the garage because she had no time to ride. The blaster wouldn't start because of old fuel in the float bowl, so her father (my buddy) cleaned out the carb and it started right up. His daughter took it for a ride and the engine quit running after about a mile. First thing he said was (you got it)... "I think the oil injection failed".
He brought by the spark plug to show me that it was silver on the insulator and said the blaster had no compression. He asked if I could take a look at it, so I did. He kept telling me how he hated oil injection and how the systems always fail, and he wanted to delete it. I said no problem, we can do that.
To show it wasn't the oil injection system that failed, I spun the engine over with an electric drill while everything was connected. This was before disassembling the engine just as the bike was when it quit running. We pulled the boot from the tail end of the carb and observed perfectly good Maxima Super M coming pulsing out of the carb. The look on my buddy's face was total confusion. My thought was a leak so I tested that next, but the engine held pressure just fine on the leak tester.
Anyway to shorten up the story, I took pulled the float bowl off the carb to take a look and found a small piece of shop rag sucked up into the main jet. It wasn't enough to stop the fuel from flowing through it, but it was enough to REDUCE the amount that was flowing through it, so it went into a lean condition, started to detonade, run hot and loose compression. A hole was almost torched through the piston, but the loss in compression is what stopped the bike on the trail.
While it's apart He wants me to port the cylinder, and delete the oil injection, because he doesn't trust it. I just smiled and said ok. Some folks are just in denial.
My buddy's daughter has a blaster that I fitted with a new piston to and re-chamber a head for. It runs oil injection too. His daughter road it constantly for about a year and ran like a watch. It then sat for about four months in the garage because she had no time to ride. The blaster wouldn't start because of old fuel in the float bowl, so her father (my buddy) cleaned out the carb and it started right up. His daughter took it for a ride and the engine quit running after about a mile. First thing he said was (you got it)... "I think the oil injection failed".
He brought by the spark plug to show me that it was silver on the insulator and said the blaster had no compression. He asked if I could take a look at it, so I did. He kept telling me how he hated oil injection and how the systems always fail, and he wanted to delete it. I said no problem, we can do that.
To show it wasn't the oil injection system that failed, I spun the engine over with an electric drill while everything was connected. This was before disassembling the engine just as the bike was when it quit running. We pulled the boot from the tail end of the carb and observed perfectly good Maxima Super M coming pulsing out of the carb. The look on my buddy's face was total confusion. My thought was a leak so I tested that next, but the engine held pressure just fine on the leak tester.
Anyway to shorten up the story, I took pulled the float bowl off the carb to take a look and found a small piece of shop rag sucked up into the main jet. It wasn't enough to stop the fuel from flowing through it, but it was enough to REDUCE the amount that was flowing through it, so it went into a lean condition, started to detonade, run hot and loose compression. A hole was almost torched through the piston, but the loss in compression is what stopped the bike on the trail.
While it's apart He wants me to port the cylinder, and delete the oil injection, because he doesn't trust it. I just smiled and said ok. Some folks are just in denial.
