A-ARM help

[sicivicdude]

revin-it and Kgibson, I'm going to be doing a change in my jig to incorporate your suggestions about moving the lower ball joint into the arm more.

I'm still going to get a quote on powdercoating so I can have a final price for anyone who's interested in a set. I'll have the jig up in the corner ready to go. I'm about a week out for metal and then about a week out in manufacturing and coating.

 

[blasterboy20xx]

I know you've had plenty of peaple hittin on these already asr sells longer tie rods with there set as well and they've had plenty of testing... What I'm getting to is make sure they are failsafe before you try to sell them. The last thing you need is someone jumping and upon impact snap,,, next thing you know you have a lawsuit on you're hands and so much for paying for all your stuff... Just looking out for you because I know how bad this can turn and peaple will file a lawsuit in a heartbeat... Good luck!!

 

[lowkhalbalr]

i know what you mean man, i got taters arms for now, prolly run em till the ball joints go and then weigh in my options

yours have to be the best looking fab'ed arms i have seen

fo sho. i was thinkin while reading this thread hb a pressed in automotive style ball joint for the lower? as in an arm with a collar ball joint pressed into that? the trick i guess would be finding ball joints that fit:/

 

[lowkhalbalr]

I know you've had plenty of peaple hittin on these already asr sells longer tie rods with there set as well and they've had plenty of testing... What I'm getting to is make sure they are failsafe before you try to sell them. The last thing you need is someone jumping and upon impact snap,,, next thing you know you have a lawsuit on you're hands and so much for paying for all your stuff... Just looking out for you because I know how bad this can turn and peaple will file a lawsuit in a heartbeat... Good luck!!

release forms FTW

 

[sicivicdude]

Release forms FTW. Actually a denial of fitness for any purpose and lack of warranty expressed or implied should cover it. It comes with the territory of buying "racing" items that you are taking the liability of use for those items on yourself.

Anyway, I chose the ball joints I did simply because I had experience with them before and believe they would work. It turns out, I was right! They work great. I extended my tie rods for my set. I've already figured into the cost estimates the material to make 4130 tie rods of the proper length to include with a kit. If someone purchased an a-arm kit, it would come as a bolt and go set-up. Pinch bolt upper ball joint, adjustable lower ball joint, longer tie rods with the reverse thread in one end and everything.

I'm going to be done a write up in a few days outlining some of the most important measurements for anyone who wants to tackle this challenge by themselves. I think it's a rewarding project and a real "get to know your blaster" type thing to undertake. Not for the faint at heart though.

The offer for arms still stands for people who don't have the ability to fabricate.

 

[3 Wh33l3r Rid3r]

civic i will be looking forward to the write up, i may try to build a set to accept some 18.5 shocks. good job on the arms man

 

[sicivicdude]

18.5" shocks? Off of what?

A few things to consider though: the longer the shock absorber, the more travel the shaft has. The ball joints are ultimately the limit on travel altough you could substitute heim joints in place, I don't like the idea of trail riding heim joints.... I'd rather live without the extra few inches of travel. It's sort of like jetting an engine on the lean side, it's gonna perform great but only last a few hours before it's coming apart.

The more travel you have, the less controlled that travel has to be from a design standpoint. Blaster shocks ride like crap because the springs are strong and the valving is very tight. They're like that because they don't have much travel and they're trying to control what they have to keep things happy. Longer shocks have more length to burn up the energy of a jump landing. One way they do that is to put triple rate springs on. The spring rates are progressively stronger which means it lets small bumps pass underneath without you feeling them but also pushes back against large bumps. Unfortunately if your ball joints are running at their raggety edge, that first few inches of travel which are sprung very lightly will be used up easily, putting you closer to the bind point.

The longer the shock, the farther out on the arm it has to be mounted. The farther out on the arm it has to be mounted, the less leverage the arm has on it which sounds great for lightly sprung shocks BUT the farther the bottom of the shock is mounted out on the arm, the more angle the shock is put at through the arms travel. The more angle the shock is put at, the MORE leverage the arm has on the shock. A perfectly sprung set of 14 3/4" shocks will resist bottoming better than a perfectly sprung set of 19" shocks because of the angle change through the suspension travel. That's not to say that the 19" shocks wouldn't work better for certain circumstances. If you had a pair of 19" shocks that were sprung far heavier than needed they would ride much smoother and dampen out more than the perfectly sprung 14 3/4" shocks but if you don't already have the shocks sprung heavy, you might be in trouble.

 

[3 Wh33l3r Rid3r]

I have a set of long travel yfz 450 fox float evols and I can make any pressure I want on the shocks by adding air. Plus they have rebound control and my elkas dont and im not about to spend what they want on a new set of fox evols 1500 bucks since I already have these shocks it would be smarter just to build some arms or move my shock mount on the extended arms I have now.

 

[brandoz28]

still wonder why more people don't move the top mount as well....if you move it up to the upper frame rail it will open things up a lot

 

[StrokedTater244]

still wonder why more people don't move the top mount as well....if you move it up to the upper frame rail it will open things up a lot

this is my plan for the yfz shocks i just got.. im going to move the upper mount out and up. looking for at least 9 inches travel that way. ill know for sure once i get the shocks. I:I

 

[brandoz28]

 

[StrokedTater244]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

my thoughts exactly.. nice old school pic too!

 

[brandoz28]

that's the godfather a loooooooong time ago. got a good amount of travel with just stock a arms

 

[StrokedTater244]

that's the godfather a loooooooong time ago. got a good amount of travel with just stock a arms

who is that?................

 

[brandoz28]

that is phragle in around 89

 

[sicivicdude]

You can get almost 9" of travel out of factory length shocks. If you have the resolve to build your suspension using heims, you should get more than 9" of travel. If you don't get more than 9", you've waisted your time building a set.

If you just want to run the fox evol's, you could do a set of whacky otis mounts. They do what you're talking about and you don't need to get rid of your snyder +3's.

 

[3 Wh33l3r Rid3r]

You can get almost 9" of travel out of factory length shocks. If you have the resolve to build your suspension using heims, you should get more than 9" of travel. If you don't get more than 9", you've waisted your time building a set.

If you just want to run the fox evol's, you could do a set of whacky otis mounts. They do what you're talking about and you don't need to get rid of your snyder +3's.

yeah but would you rather have 9 inches of travel with a 14" shock or 18" with 4 more inches of shock stroke.

i actually found a set of LT arms today that im gonna get after i sell mine that take the 18.5" shock.

 

[245stroker]

18.5'' front shocks on a blaster FTW!!!!

 

[sicivicdude]

Irrelevent question. You cannot get but a certain amount of suspension travel without sacrificing overall width (or doing some REALLY special stuff like mounting the arms on the opposite side of the vehicle and that doesn't increase ground clearance becuase the pivot points will contact the ground at some point) so it doesn't matter what length shocks you're using.

It matters far more if you're using the proper valving and spring rate than the actual length of the shock. If you're trying to use improperly sprung/valved shocks simply to have the extra length, you're spinning your wheels.

There are two advantages to longer shocks and chances are, you're not going to be using either one of them. First, the longer shocks have more room to pack in a longer spring/double wound spring to reduce spring float in very quick cycles. Second, the increased length of tubing decreases the ratio of tubing touching piston to tubing touching oil. The effect is under high speed cycles, your oil will stay marginally cooler because of the increased surface area.

There is a distinct disadvantage to the longer shocks if you don't run them with the upper mount moved out and upwards. If you have any hiccups, there is a greater chance you'll bend a shock shaft. There is simply more shaft exposed to get bent if you have an accident or similar miscalculation.

The only places you'd use those features would be in high speed desert racing. Running around the through the woods you'll never know the difference and if you clip a tree, you might find out about that disadvantage.

 

[3 Wh33l3r Rid3r]

civic im not gonna argue with you about suspension because you obviously know more about it than me, but if what im reading what your saying is correct your pretty much saying Lt is junk, then why does every race team use long travel shocks? every racer just as soon as they get a bike on goes the LT suspension. go on yfzcentral.com and see if you cant find 5 people that have a standard travel aftermarket supension , i bet you will be looking for days. one thing i do know is a longer shock is easier to fine tune than a short shock. as far as me not using the properly valved shocks, the floats adjust to just about anybody simply add more or less air.