A-ARM help
- Thread starter mmajay
- Start date
We had an especially dreary day here today, so I spent most of it out in the shop working on suspension pieces. I figured out the lower control arm length to work with my upper I already made and spent most of the day working out the angle of the lower ball joint threaded hole to get the lower ball joint not binding in the entire range of the upper ball joint. Believe it or not, the yamaha replacement ball joint has nearly the range that the ricky stator ball joint has. It lacks like 2 degrees but I worked the lower so that the upper is the bind in both directions.
The upper ball joint is in bind at the same height off the ground as the factory suspension but the whole suspension goes much lower before it binds. I don't want the frame to drag on the downside of a jump and I'm not sure far the stock suspension is from that so I figured on playing it safe and making the upper limit of the suspension travel the same as stock and going down from there.
I also starting working on the jig today. It's one thing to make a one-off of something and have it work one time. It's quite another to be able to make a pair of them identical on each side... and to be able to reproduce those results again.
So far so very good. I'm going to work on the shock mount location for the right side tomorrow to get the most suspension throw possible without binding ball joints. Once I've got the mounting location for the shock worked out I'm going to finish up the jig and duplicate the pieces to make the other side.
On a side note, I'm going to be getting a unimix gas bottle for my mig welder... I've had it for 4 years now and have alwasys used it on flux cored wire believing the lack of weld quality was a suitable trade-off for allowing it to be portable. This experience with my buddies (borrowed) gas mig welder has convinced me of the advantages of shielding gas. My welder has the capacity for gas, it came with the regulator and everything for hooking it up but the tank. I called when I was in the planning stage of this project and asked how much it was to purchase a tank. I was told that 160 CF gas tank costs $95 for the gas but the tank costs $200 to purchase. I won't be using 160 CF tanks of gas real often so that's not the main concern. I just didn't have $200 to pick up that tank at the time. Now I know what the difference is in weld quality, I'm going to save up to buy a shield gass tank.
The upper ball joint is in bind at the same height off the ground as the factory suspension but the whole suspension goes much lower before it binds. I don't want the frame to drag on the downside of a jump and I'm not sure far the stock suspension is from that so I figured on playing it safe and making the upper limit of the suspension travel the same as stock and going down from there.
I also starting working on the jig today. It's one thing to make a one-off of something and have it work one time. It's quite another to be able to make a pair of them identical on each side... and to be able to reproduce those results again.
So far so very good. I'm going to work on the shock mount location for the right side tomorrow to get the most suspension throw possible without binding ball joints. Once I've got the mounting location for the shock worked out I'm going to finish up the jig and duplicate the pieces to make the other side.
On a side note, I'm going to be getting a unimix gas bottle for my mig welder... I've had it for 4 years now and have alwasys used it on flux cored wire believing the lack of weld quality was a suitable trade-off for allowing it to be portable. This experience with my buddies (borrowed) gas mig welder has convinced me of the advantages of shielding gas. My welder has the capacity for gas, it came with the regulator and everything for hooking it up but the tank. I called when I was in the planning stage of this project and asked how much it was to purchase a tank. I was told that 160 CF gas tank costs $95 for the gas but the tank costs $200 to purchase. I won't be using 160 CF tanks of gas real often so that's not the main concern. I just didn't have $200 to pick up that tank at the time. Now I know what the difference is in weld quality, I'm going to save up to buy a shield gass tank.
That looks awesome I:I I was thinking of making some a-arms with square tubing for a different look or turn the square tubing to look like diamond tubing...
bronco, I don't think they make this alloy in square tubing in a range of sizes you'd find to your liking. I found some doing a simple search but it was fairly thin stuff. I wouldn't build it out of anything thinner than .083" and the thickest square I saw was .049".
Maybe someone has it and it's just not listed... who knows.
Maybe someone has it and it's just not listed... who knows.
Great work!! Yes i use 75%argon25% co2 for great welds, its really worth the cost. I have to many diferant gases so i been renting the bottles for a small fee. Maybe you can score a tank on craigs list, most welding supply places will swap a tank of your prefered gas for any tank you can find. I have to hand it to ya, I knew those arms was going to take alot of talent as well as thinking and your doing a fine job at both. I:I One more thing, have you checked dillon metal supply for metal?? I bet you can get it a little cheaper there and many more sizes and options. I get a discount there because i have bought so much metal for my shop but even with no discount they are hard to beat.
I bought my original bit of metal off a supplier that specializes in strange alloys and small parcels. I ordered only enough metal to do the project on hand.
I called Dillon today about a quote on the tubing. They said that the minimum order for specail metals is one stick (20') which is a little more than two sets of arms in the 1" tubing and a little more than 4 sets of arms in the 3/4" tubing. The one stick minimum isn't a problem but he didn't get back with me about a price before I left work today so I don't know how their price stacks up against the place I bought my metal from.
I also went up to a local supplier for national welders and checked on buying a unimix tank (the blend you're talking about) He said it was about $250 to buy the tank outright and then the gas is $95 for exchange. Considering the amount I've used out of the borrowed welders tank a 160CF tank should last about two years.
The tank on the welder I'm borrowing was bought off of a craigslist and nearly put my buddy in jail... My friend contacted someone on craigslist about a welding tank and the guy met him and sold him a rented corporate tank. When he went down to the national welders location they told him so and threated to call the cops on him. He worked with the manager to get the guy who sold the tank and in return the manager traded him an owned tank in exchange for his help and the rented tank back (a REALLY generous thing of him to do). I don't want to risk anything like buying a stolen tank or something so I think I'll stick with the legit stuff and buy my own tank from a dealer.
I called Dillon today about a quote on the tubing. They said that the minimum order for specail metals is one stick (20') which is a little more than two sets of arms in the 1" tubing and a little more than 4 sets of arms in the 3/4" tubing. The one stick minimum isn't a problem but he didn't get back with me about a price before I left work today so I don't know how their price stacks up against the place I bought my metal from.
I also went up to a local supplier for national welders and checked on buying a unimix tank (the blend you're talking about) He said it was about $250 to buy the tank outright and then the gas is $95 for exchange. Considering the amount I've used out of the borrowed welders tank a 160CF tank should last about two years.
The tank on the welder I'm borrowing was bought off of a craigslist and nearly put my buddy in jail... My friend contacted someone on craigslist about a welding tank and the guy met him and sold him a rented corporate tank. When he went down to the national welders location they told him so and threated to call the cops on him. He worked with the manager to get the guy who sold the tank and in return the manager traded him an owned tank in exchange for his help and the rented tank back (a REALLY generous thing of him to do). I don't want to risk anything like buying a stolen tank or something so I think I'll stick with the legit stuff and buy my own tank from a dealer.
I was wondering if they made it in square but i did not spend any time looking for it....
What size tubing did you use to fit the bushings in and what size tubing did you use on the a-arms, the ID & OD???
How did you bend the chrom-moly tubing????
Keep up the good work!!! I'm looking forward to some more pics!!lolI:I
So for everyone wondering.... The bushings that go in the front end are .003" smaller than 1" x .083" tubing. From the factory they have to be driven out....hard. With that size tubing they are tight push in fit. I cut the upper mount 6 13/16" or ~6.812" long and the lower two mounts ~1.932". Those figures are not exact because the bushing kit takes up play. I set my caliper for the 1.932" figure and used it as a go, no-go tester which is plenty tight for tolerance for those mounts.
The .063" upper arm tubing was bent with.... wait for it...wait for it.... a 3/4" EMT conduit bender from Gardner and my fat butt standing on top of it bouncing up and down. It took a bunch of working but I worked the tube to the bend I wanted without heat and without have to kink it. As you can see in the close-ups of the upper arm, the radii for those bends are smooth at about 6"
bronco, I understand you're of the tinkering nature too. For those who are not, I'm making a jig for these arms which would allow me to make sets just like this. I might have found someone I know with a powdercoating setup at his house and he might cut me a deal. I still have to finish (and test to the brink of destruction) this set I am building but for those who don't have the capability to build something like this, it might be an option. The price would be in the high 300's right now. Probably just a hair under a set of ASR's and I can't hammer that price down any more than that right now as I'm still waiting back on quotes from a local tubing supplier and figuring out how much it's going to cost to make tierods from scratch.
The .063" upper arm tubing was bent with.... wait for it...wait for it.... a 3/4" EMT conduit bender from Gardner and my fat butt standing on top of it bouncing up and down. It took a bunch of working but I worked the tube to the bend I wanted without heat and without have to kink it. As you can see in the close-ups of the upper arm, the radii for those bends are smooth at about 6"
bronco, I understand you're of the tinkering nature too. For those who are not, I'm making a jig for these arms which would allow me to make sets just like this. I might have found someone I know with a powdercoating setup at his house and he might cut me a deal. I still have to finish (and test to the brink of destruction) this set I am building but for those who don't have the capability to build something like this, it might be an option. The price would be in the high 300's right now. Probably just a hair under a set of ASR's and I can't hammer that price down any more than that right now as I'm still waiting back on quotes from a local tubing supplier and figuring out how much it's going to cost to make tierods from scratch.
So for everyone wondering.... The bushings that go in the front end are .003" smaller than 1" x .083" tubing. From the factory they have to be driven out....hard. With that size tubing they are tight push in fit. I cut the upper mount 6 13/16" or ~6.812" long and the lower two mounts ~1.932". Those figures are not exact because the bushing kit takes up play. I set my caliper for the 1.932" figure and used it as a go, no-go tester which is plenty tight for tolerance for those mounts.
The .063" upper arm tubing was bent with.... wait for it...wait for it.... a 3/4" EMT conduit bender from Gardner and my fat butt standing on top of it bouncing up and down. It took a bunch of working but I worked the tube to the bend I wanted without heat and without have to kink it. As you can see in the close-ups of the upper arm, the radii for those bends are smooth at about 6"
bronco, I understand you're of the tinkering nature too. For those who are not, I'm making a jig for these arms which would allow me to make sets just like this. I might have found someone I know with a powdercoating setup at his house and he might cut me a deal. I still have to finish (and test to the brink of destruction) this set I am building but for those who don't have the capability to build something like this, it might be an option. The price would be in the high 300's right now. Probably just a hair under a set of ASR's and I can't hammer that price down any more than that right now as I'm still waiting back on quotes from a local tubing supplier and figuring out how much it's going to cost to make tierods from scratch.
A conduit bender!!!!!lol that worked awesome!!!!I:II:II:II:I
If you're not a heavy guy the conduit bender isn't gonna cut it and by heavy I do mean over 300#.
I would like to have a hydraulic bender one day but it's not going to happen right now. I working on a unimix tank and a metal cutting chop saw.
I would like to have a hydraulic bender one day but it's not going to happen right now. I working on a unimix tank and a metal cutting chop saw.
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