Extended Swingarm.... Think twice

[sporty982000]

And I will re-add again.

The stock swinger has a design flaw. It has openings, that allow water to come inside the swinger, yet those openings are slightly higher than the lowest inside bottom of the tubing.

Allowing water to settle in there and rust out.

The pictures in the post, clearly showed metal fatigue and rust, not a welding issue. I wonder how old it was and how often water got in there.

Not to re mention, that It may be better to drill a couple of small wholes in center key areas on the bottom, underside to allow water to get out or seal the opening where water can get it.

Some of those pictures were taken right after it happened, you can clearly see, that there had been a crack for a while prior to the final breakage.

Unless one has access to a rockwell tester, It's hard to determine the condition of the metal.

Sporty

 

[Awk08]

The pictures in the post, clearly showed metal fatigue and rust, not a welding issue.

whens the last time you had your eyes checked ??
it was clearly the overly built up butt welds that broke.

 

[sporty982000]

whens the last time you had your eyes checked ??
it was clearly the overly built up butt welds that broke.

I know you in the midst of some hot topic debate or something. But I did go to welding school and worked at a steel mill !

I clearely see the failure next to the welds, but not on the welds and the jagged edges / rips. are from metal fatigue !


Now did the welds, cause the meta fatigue in that area, Likely ! But the rust, also shows a overall poor condition of the metal !

 

[DUALSTROKE]

I know you in the midst of some hot topic debate or something. But I did go to welding school and worked at a steel mill !

I clearely see the failure next to the welds, but not on the welds and the jagged edges / rips. are from metal fatigue !


Now did the welds, cause the meta fatigue in that area, Likely ! But the rust, also shows a overall poor condition of the metal !

Would you be happy with it if you paid a good amount of money and it lasted 4 months tops,and it breaks while your 11 year old son was riding it? Nuff said

 

[OConnor Racing]

So why start with a poor design in the first place? Why take a rusty swingarm and try to make it a high performance piece. Toss the piece of garbage in the trash and start from scratch. The problems with this swinger start at the factory. When you extend them, you make the original problems worse. It's a stamped, sheet metal swingarm made for a 12 year old kid to play in his back yard. It's like everything else on these quads. It begs for serious mods.

 

[Awk08]

It's like everything else on these quads. It begs for serious mods.

apparently hacking together a piece of sh*t is "serious mods" to some ?

 

[StrokedTater244]

wow! thanks for all of the replies. i have came clean with Joe about this situation and now i will come clean on the open forum. i did not do the work on this particular swingarm. the man that did is a good friend of mine. he is a better welder than i am. the guy welds for a living at large fab shop and has done so for the last 11 years. i was so busy with building other parts, racing and the day job that i thought i could trust him to follow my exact instructions when modding this part. well he did not. i sleeve, plug and butt weld the extensions on these. after enlarging and relooking at the pics i have recieved through emails i can see that he did not. i trust this man with my life. i have trusted him with my life as he has welded on my drag blaster and banshee that reach speeds in excess of 100 mph on the dirt. i can only hope we remain friends after this, because this has me very mad! but thats off topic! i have spoke with him briefly about this and he did admit to not following my exact instrustions with sleeving this area. and to all the nay sayers, yes this area can be sleeved, plugged and butt welded and be strong if cut and jigged right. joe and myself have been communicating through emails. i am not going to copy and paste everything that has been said, but i have admited my wrongs and am taking care of this huge problem. something else that joe had not mentioned is the fact that this stocker had a crack in it before it was modded. that should have been a sign to me to not use this one for an extension and yet another bad call on MY part. from what we can tell, even though he did not follow my plans, the break started where it was cracked before hand. many might see this as an excuse. but it is what it is. yes i feel very bad, and have expressed my sincere concern for joes boys safety. those of you that know me, know that i am a good person and do not want to see anyone get hurt just to make a dollar. or a million dollars for that matter. any other serious questions or concerns about how these are built i would be happy to answer.

as for all the hate. well ya know, haters gonna hate.

 

[ddq]

<Edit> Despite stroked's reply, I still feel this way.


Those are not the best pictures, but it looks clear to me that the swingarm broke straight down the middle of the weld (at least on one side, I cant tell about the other from the pics), which should not happen. Like previously stated by other members, this was obviously a "welder" who had no clue what he was doing.

First, this Jive Turkey cut a swingarm in half and looked at the inside and saw lots of rust. Then he said to himself "ah well, once I weld it up nobody is going to know what the inside looks like. I wonder if I have any more Old Milwakees in the fridge"?

Secondly, he "welded", the extensions in getting absolutely no penetration. This is painfully clear from one of the pictures in which you can see a nice, straight, smooth line where the break occured. If done right, the weld should be stronger than the surrounding metal, so it should have ripped down the sides of the weld, not right down the middle where he cut the swingarm.
I really dont think grinding down the weld made a bit of difference. If anyone with BASIC welding skills had welded this swingarm with good penetration then the weld would be deep and grinding on it would not have made a big difference.

Meow, I don't want to sound like Im knocking anybody's innovative and creative ideas, but for riding more serious than getting the mail I think extending a stock swingarm is a terrible idea. Yeah, you can save a few bucks, but is it worth your safety or the safety of the ones you love? I love metal working and welding, but the swingarm is the foundation of your machine, and it, along with the axle take more stress than any other chassis component on the quad. When landing from big jumps or pounding through whoops, its the rear suspension that is taking the abuse. Why are motocross riders taught to land rear tires first when landing big jumps? Its because the job of the rear end (axle, swingarm and shock) is to slow down and decrease the stress on the front suspension.

I just dont see how the benefit outweighs the danger, even for a rider on a budget. Save up for a little bit longer and buy something built by a professional.

Here is what I run. A chromoly MX arm built by JL Engineering. I have not found any aftermarket company who can build me a swingarm out of mild steel that will not break. Note the gussets on both the top and the bottom.

It survived a landing from about 12' to flat ground after I sailed about 20' past where I was supposed to land. Do any of you MX riders really think an extended blaster swingarm, no matter how well done, could hold up to a landing like that, or the other vigours of competitive riding?

Also, I could not tell from the pics, but why are those T-Rock swingarms not roundhouse style? Is there some sort of freak reason that blasters are the ONLY quads that benefit from the PITA factory style chain tensioner?

 

[sporty982000]

Would you be happy with it if you paid a good amount of money and it lasted 4 months tops,and it breaks while your 11 year old son was riding it? Nuff said

I would not have put a extended swinger on a atv for my child to ride, in the first place.
Theres a inherit risk, anytime you mod any part. Let alone buy a after market part.

Its a very unfortune situation overall.

Sporty

 

[JonS]

Glad you came in here Tater and shared your side of the story as well. As long as Blowncash and you are on the same page that's all that matters.





DDQ: You also made some good points. Really makes ya think. That damn Shee needs some wings on it LOL!

 

[best]

Gentlemen, how do you know if you don't try?
Simple, engineering, force vectors, leverage, strength of materials, all that.
The stock arm is remarkably tough because it is well engineered for the most strength while using the lightest material.
I could make a superstrong arm out of 1/4" steel and guarantee it for life, but how much would it weigh?
My answer was to mod a stock arm:

Notice the thickness of the welded in peice? 1/4"! Easy to get a good weld on that, especially over a 4" length.

Straight cut across, straight bar filling in, tack it in place and vee it for the full depth welds from both sides.
Yes, I had a certified welding course 35 years ago and 34 years ago I decided I didn't want to dig soot out of my nose forever, became a machinist.

A bit ugly from the short pass on one side then another from the other side, but it is full depth and secure.
Now have a close look. From pivot to shockmount is untouched, exact same stresses through this part of it, no more likely to damage than stock.
Now look out at the extension past the shock pivot. This is where the leverages and forces come on. They are strongest near the shock pivot and taper back to stock levels at the axle.
So we don't touch the 1/8" square tube that welds so poorly, we go to the overkill 1/4" that welds like a charm and put a 32" filling pass on it.
That will be hard to break.

The 1/8" horizontal is to stiffen up any sway in the 1/4" plates. Sway not likely but gone forever now.
How much to 2 x 2" x 4" x 1/4" pieces of steel weight? 2 lbs of added weight?

So far 45+hp of crazy KTM power and a fat arsed log jumping cowboy has not been able to break it. Yes I jump, wheely and consider logs a specialty.
I like the extra 2" for better balance but still great traction to get the wheels up at speed.
Here was the original below:

I see a lot of 15-25 lbs bench press bars, that ain't engineering, it is overkill.

 

[slickerthanyou]

1st Im putting this on here because I was unable to find any real negative reports on extending the stock swingarm on the Blaster.So instead of purchasing a quality aftermarket swinger,I went with the cheaper route of having my stock one extended.The quad that this arm is for, belongs to my 95 lb., 11 year old son. The bike was not crashed or abused in any way.Normal trail riding and a couple trips to a local track and it has failed.It broke in two places were it was extended and rewelded.My son was not hurt,only upset that his day of riding was cut short. Im not here to slam anybody,Im only giving prople a look at what can happen,with this type of modification to a stock swingarm.This swingarm was built by a highly recomended individual and not by myself. Theres about a $200 difference in what it cost for my stock one to be modified and a qualty aftermarket.Look at the pictures and make your decision.

Glad your son is ok! Horrible weld job for sure! Full refund should be in order! I have a stock swinger your more than welcome to have to get your boy back in the dirt!

- let me know!-Bob!

 

[Awk08]

off topic remarks deleted and thread closed, unless the OP requests i reopen it.

if any of you would still like to continue voicing your off topic opinions, please start your own thread on the subject and i'll gladly join in on it.
i'll even copy and paste the deleted posts so you can continue the rant

 

[blowncash]

OK! I asked that this thread be reopen! This guy that I have purposely not named is a TURD! "STROKEDTATER" He has responded with nothing but a bunch of lame bulls**** excuses!!!(Read the whole thread and you can see his B.S.) His swing arm is a complete POS! And any of you guys out there that wanna back him! Please send me YOUR money! I have given Matt the benefit of the doubt! But He has run out of time with me!( 5 months) He can keep the $150 that he STOLE from me!(+shipping) (Im sure he planed on it anyway!)I have corresponded with Matt on several different occasions and all he has given me is crap excuses! Just like his work! After his EPIC FAIL! I Purchased a REAL swing arm! My kid has put over 40 hours of abuse on the REAL DEAL without fail! (No excuses needed here!) This Guy can go ahead and sell his GARBAGE to whoever will buy it! BUT BUYER BEWARE! HIS STUFF IS sh*t! WITH NO WARRANTY AT ALL! Its been broke by a 10 year old, 95 pound kid ! So if you wanna put you, or your loved ones on top of this guys JUNK! Go for it! Again if you LOVERS(of tater) wanna stand behind this guy! Put your money where your keyboard (mouth) is!! I guess there's a "SUCKER BORN EVERY MINUTE"! (It won't be me again! Will it be you?!!))My new swing arm, built from scratch was done in 2 weeks! T-ROCK 100%! Satisfaction Guaranteed! MONEY WELL SPENT!

 

[StrokedTater244]

OK! I asked that this thread be reopen! This guy that I have purposely not named is a TURD! "STROKEDTATER" He has responded with nothing but a bunch of lame bulls**** excuses!!!(Read the whole thread and you can see his B.S.) His swing arm is a complete POS! And any of you guys out there that wanna back him! Please send me YOUR money! I have given Matt the benefit of the doubt! But He has run out of time with me!( 5 months) He can keep the $150 that he STOLE from me!(+shipping) (Im sure he planed on it anyway!)I have corresponded with Matt on several different occasions and all he has given me is crap excuses! Just like his work! After his EPIC FAIL! I Purchased a REAL swing arm! My kid has put over 40 hours of abuse on the REAL DEAL without fail! (No excuses needed here!) This Guy can go ahead and sell his GARBAGE to whoever will buy it! BUT BUYER BEWARE! HIS STUFF IS sh*t! WITH NO WARRANTY AT ALL! Its been broke by a 10 year old, 95 pound kid ! So if you wanna put you, or your loved ones on top of this guys JUNK! Go for it! Again if you LOVERS(of tater) wanna stand behind this guy! Put your money where your keyboard (mouth) is!! I guess there's a "SUCKER BORN EVERY MINUTE"! (It won't be me again! Will it be you?!!))My new swing arm, built from scratch was done in 2 weeks! T-ROCK 100%! Satisfaction Guaranteed! MONEY WELL SPENT!

do you want me to send you the one i am having powdercoated for you for free? thought i would be a nice guy and have it it powdercoated the same color you guys had it painted, at my cost. i told ya the darn guy is slow, but its free powdercoat for you! it was an extra $60 out of my pocket as a kind gesture. i never gave you a time on when your swingarm would be done. i dont care if i never build anyhting for people on the internet again. local people i race with having been keeping me very busy building parts. i never touched your swingarm anyway. planned on ripping you off??? thats a good one, i have never and will never rip anyone one. i have done hundreds of transactions online through many sites and ebay and never had an ounce of bad rep, alone form a couple members on this site! and now you have a very very strong swingarm!!! congrats on that buy!

thanks for calling me a turd also!

 

[blowncash]

You are a TURD! You had 5 months to make this right! "the guy is slow" give me a break! A dead man can get it done faster! You had no intention of making this right!I gave you 5 stress free months to do 4 hours of work and here we are now! Its not like you had thousands of dollars into this and didnt have the cash to make it right! I had guys on this forum offer to send me a good swing arm so the kid could ride! (free of charge). You had MY money and felt no sense of urgency to make this right! Now you have something to say! Because I called you out! If I had to wait on you and all your excuses (reasons),my kid would still be sitting in the pits waiting to ride! YOUR WEAK! JUST LIKE YOUR SWING ARMS!

 

[StrokedTater244]

You are a TURD! You had 5 months to make this right! "the guy is slow" give me a break! A dead man can get it done faster! You had no intention of making this right!I gave you 5 stress free months to do 4 hours of work and here we are now! Its not like you had thousands of dollars into this and didnt have the cash to make it right! I had guys on this forum offer to send me a good swing arm so the kid could ride! (free of charge). You had MY money and felt no sense of urgency to make this right! Now you have something to say! Because I called you out! If I had to wait on you and all your excuses (reasons),my kid would still be sitting in the pits waiting to ride! YOUR WEAK! JUST LIKE YOUR SWING ARMS!

he is slow, swinger has been with him since the first week in november when i emailed you for your address. why didnt you ever give me a call when i asked months ago? whatever!

 

[StrokedTater244]

YOUR WEAK! JUST LIKE YOUR SWING ARMS!

8-|.......................

 

[blowncash]

You might wanna check your powder coater! For a pulse!

 

[blowncash]

November? Send him flowers! Hes dead!