piston type difference?

04YamahaRider

Member
Jun 11, 2011
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Cullman, Alabama
What's the difference between forged pistons and cast pistons? Is the forged Longer lasting, and stronger? Ideas and answers greatly appreciated cuz I wanna know the best to go back into a stock engine so I dont have to rebuild the blaster as often as a 2 stroke should. which is every 2 years right?
 
What's the difference between forged pistons and cast pistons? Is the forged Longer lasting, and stronger? Ideas and answers greatly appreciated cuz I wanna know the best to go back into a stock engine so I dont have to rebuild the blaster as often as a 2 stroke should. which is every 2 years right?

forged pistons ftw, dont rebuild it untill it needs it. take good care of it and it will last a long time
 
cast shatter and get chunks everywhere. Forged are stonger and dont. Also if you take care of you bike your golden shouldnt have to rebuild it.
 
The blaster I just bought is a 1995 and has never been rebuild so I think a piston shattering or melting is inevitable now cuz I ride it like its stolen:D it prolly is cuz its from the ghetto haha
 
The blaster I just bought is a 1995 and has never been rebuild so I think a piston shattering or melting is inevitable now cuz I ride it like its stolen:D it prolly is cuz its from the ghetto haha

with proper jetting it will last years more lol. coud prolly use a set of rings though..
 
Yea I'm thinking rings at least cuz it barely has compression its like a puff of air you can make with your mouth, its pretty weak. But the damn thing still runs great, can I just run it until it quits kicking over? Then I need a full rebuild? The 15 yr old bottom end will prolly go out if I just put a new topend on it cuz the pressure from the good compression.
 
jetting, jetting, jetting. Having the carb jetted perfect has a large effect on how long a top end will last you. The jetting keeps the proper amount of fuel and oil getting to the motr. And being aircooled, this is also the way a blastyer cools itself other than air of course. I have heard of some blasters going 6-7 years on 1 topend. These were kept in great shape and tuned it right. Very viable though. Forged and cast piston are both good. They both make the same power. Only problem is when your piston goes, cast pistons like to break into lots, and lots f tiny pieces which will destroy your bottom end. Forged pistons will usually break into 2-3 decent size chunks. If you maintain your bike, your piston should never shatter. You should regularly check compression. If its low, pull the head and look at the piston to cylinder clearance. If its not to excessive, then rings may suffice. However, if the is excessive clearance then you should get a new piston and depending on scoring, or scraping on the cylinder walls an overbore may be needed.
 
What type of piston is the stock one? This is going to be my trail quad since my utility always has problwms, I just dont want this quad shutting down on the trail so making sure a rebuild Isnt necessary until maybe the winter after summer riding season is over?
. Still want answers, cuz I'm still afraid it'll go boom and I can't get home lol
 
I'm not sure what the stock material is but if your replacing then i would go forged. Stock bore pistons are easy to find cast or forged, the big bore forged pistons are pretty rare right now. If i was you i would pull the head and look inside the cylinder. Look at the cylinder walls and what part of the piston you can see, and if you see anything wierd pull the jug for a closer look at the cylinder and the piston. Before you pull the jug, get a mearsurement on piston to cylinder clearance though. Might only need rings, but might need a new piston and even a bore. If everything looks good, a hone and some rings will set you up for a while. Take some pics whenever you get around to pulling the head so we can see what your workin with and give some advice.
 
Ok, thanks I'm not much of a mechanic so I might not do that unless I'm supervised by a more experienced person, and for some reason I can't upload pics to a thread but i can put them in an album idk why but oh well. I will keep an update on the process of replacing the entire braking system tho, I'm going to stay with stock system if they continue to work, if not my friend said he can rig up a banshee caliper for me, I trust him 100% with anything banshee related cuz he used to have one and ripped on it, a stock banshee can't handle him and he's only 15 lol
 
well if u got a extra $200 kicking around go ahead and get it honed or a very slight bore, get new piston and rings then get some cometic EST gaskets and there ya go,, nice and fresh
 
I'm worried if I put a new top end the bottom end will go out from the pressure, it happened to my friends 99 warrior 350. If I just run it til it fails then will it cost more to rebuild it? I'm personally not going to do it bc I havnt before, I'd like to watch it be done before i try to tear into one, I might and with my luck will screw something up.
 
ok, well if you eally want to understand the difference in the make up of cast VS forged pistons, i can try my best to explain based on my knowledge of igneous petrology which is where magma cools in the earths crust to form rock.

The concept is the same, you have a molten solution of material, in the case of pistons, this mix is calculated and measured off and put into a big melting pot at the factory.

In cast pistons such as Namura, ProX yamaha OEM, a HYPEREUTECTIC process is used. All pistons are made of a mix of SILICA (SiO2)and ALLUMINIUM (Al), this makes an alloy when combined, the silicon makes it much stronger than if it were plain alluminium.

Now as a molten solution of SiO2 and Al cools, it reaches a "LIQUIDUS" This is illustarted in the diagram as the curved line from D - E and C - E.

T on the left is the temperature

Binary-1.jpg


In the upper region, marked liquid, all the mix is liquid and there are no soild metal crystals. When the melt cools and reaches the liquidus at H, crystals start to form. BUT only at a ratio of about 1% cryastal 99% liquid because the temp is still too high! the composition of H is about 80% Si02 and 20% Al.

As the mix cools further, we move down the liquidus curve. as me move, we draw a horizontal line from an arbitary point between H and E back to the line H - J. if we do this we will see that the proportions of crystals is increasing and the amount of liquid is decreasing, thus, we get more crystals as we drop the temp.

The composition of the crystals VARIES as we move along the liquidus with changing amounts of SiO2 and Al.

If we made pistons like this, we would have the crown of the piston made of 20%Al;80%SiO2 and the lower skirt being 90%Al;10%Al, this would be a very bad piston with variabke expansion and strenth.

HOWEVER, when we reach point E on the diagram, the crystals noe form at a constant rate and with a FIXED composition 45%SiO2;55Al on diagram. This E is the EUTECTIC POINT all the liquid is used up here and only soild of Al and SiO2 remain!

So, a cast piston uses This method of equal amounts of Al and SiO2, which is better than the old days when pistons very likely to have had variable compostion!

The advantages of using this Hypereuetecic story is that the piston will have less thermal expansion variance and therefore allows for closer tolerances and accurate fits, also less chance of heat sieze with a close cyl/piston clearance.

The downside is that the introduction of so much silica makes the piston brittle, hence, too loose a bore wil result in shattering the skirt.

A FORGED piston is adifferent animal, the process of which im not as clued up about, but i do know they use a NON MELTING process, which means the cooling of molten metal is avoided.

The piston once formed (how it is formed in the 1st place is similar to a cast piston) is subjected to sever pressure causing it to deform into a plastic state and not a liquid. this then results is the deforming of mineral grains.

The realignment of mineral grains via deformation results in the uniformly orientated mineral grains which improves strenth dramatically.
As far as i know, the forging process also make the piston less porous hence stronger

Forged are alot stronger and tolerant of about and loose bore knocking and slap.

HOWEVER, they are more dimensionally unstable, so too tight a bore can result in siezure as the piston does not expand uniformly.

and there you go a 5 min lecture on Petrology :)
 
You just basically fried my brainI:I but thanks for help even though I barley understood any of that. So what I'm gettin from that is that on a stock bore a forged piston is best if everything is seated correctly? But still what's the original piston? Cast or forged? Or is there even a different type? I'm still a Noob to mechanics and a new member in this forum,so idk about all of the technical stuff all I know is basic stuff and how engines work. Nothing on different metal types and how things can be made differently to be stronger so please bear with all my questions lol:D
 
stock is cast piston. Basically a forged piston will still hold together in a pretty worn out bore. Cast pistons tend to shatter if to much tolerance between piston and cylinder is allowed. Long story short, get a forged piston.
 
apologies, i couldnt help a bit of revision! the stock piston is CAST! they are cheaper to manufacture and for mass production, far less hassle because as i mentioned, they have better expansion characteristics. but the added silicon for strength makes them brittle.

End of the day, if you want to change pistons i would advise a forged anyday. they are just superior in terms of being shatter "proof". They have the issue of incongruent expansion but thats about it-easily catered for by having the correct sylinder/bore clearance.
 
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the OEM piston is cast, but the piston to wall clerance is right on, in a stock bore stock piston setup so you should have no problems of it breaking, but when your compression starts to get down to the low 100s you should replace the piston, and check the cylinder for wear. if its real wore out rebore it to the next size.
 
So basically I'm good until I don't have much compression? That's good, if it doesn't fail by winter 2012 then that's when I'm going to rebuild it, ima try to get a couple more summers out of it. Thanks for the helpI:I rep added to the brain melter known as blaner:D