Hobart Champion 16

[sicivicdude]

That's the difference between "peak" rating and "nominal" rating systems. This machine is rated at 100% duty cycle 8,000 watts.

Most "home use" generators are rated using peak wattage.... the most any one of those models on the perfect day has EVER put out..... particularly before it got hot.

I:I

This baby should rock and roll!

 

[sicivicdude]

I bought a pair of heads for $5 plus $10 shipping = $15

a new oil filter adapter for $20 plus $4 shipping = $24

I bought 3 quarts of oil @ $3.50 a quart = $ 10.50

two spark plugs @ $2.00 = $4


I'm watching a muffler for $20, a gas cap with fuel level gauge for $5, and a gasket set for $35.

 

[super noober]

total price so far?

 

[sicivicdude]

total price so far?

Are we counting the mig welder I traded or just CASH put into it?

If we're counting the mig welder, I bought it new 6 years ago from Lowe's and paid about $450 for it.

I had to replace the gas diffuser and liner in it = ~$35

The gas bottle cost me $100 (I got a deal off CL!) = $100

Plus about a half a tank of gasoline to run back and forth picking up things = ~$60

I also emptied a can of PB blaster = $4

and a can of carburetor cleaner = $3

That's $652 right there spead out over 6 years or so (and many many rolls of wire later through that miggy!)

So, if we include EVERYTHING I have bought up to this point, $705.

 

[Sparrow89]

ya but all ya gotta do is turn it into a coffee make/blender/gril/welder and sh*t all ready for a campn trip =)

 

[little3mil]

damn James!

what a sweet-ass machine, took a good hit but shes in good hands now

 

[sicivicdude]

Alright, the parts bought off Ebay have shipped (oil filter adapter and heads) but I've been cut off from buying anything else for it until I see it put out power I'm only allowed an oil filter....

The good news is, I don't NEED anything else for it to run I don't *think*. I should be able to put the oil filter adapter on it and crank it... I did get a 5/16"-18 tap today from work so I can clean up all of the bolt holes so hopefully it'll be as simple as a "bolt-on" repair.

 

[sicivicdude]

Dangit, tracking shows expected delivery on Monday for the oil filter adapter :*(

 

[Braaaptor]

Good score, James!

I don't forsee you needing any more engine parts, except for maybe a carburetor rebuild kit, but there aren't very many parts in that carb to fail or wear out except for the needle and seat. As long as you don't break the body gasket by accident during disassembly, you'll be fine.

Check the intake manifold gaskets carefully, where the manifold attaches to the engine block. You can get by with re-using the old ones, but if a gasket is blown or torn beyond repair and won't seal, the engine may only run on one cylinder. I was dealing with this exact problem for hours on an old Kohler Magnum engine, only to discover that the manifold had a blown gasket on the #2 cylinder. Go figure. Just my .02.

For those people on Blasterforum who don't know, that's an Onan P-series engine James is working on. They're very hard to kill and will run seemingly forever with just normal maintenance. And they sound oh-so-smooth once running. Just purr right along.

 

[sicivicdude]

Good score, James!

I don't forsee you needing any more engine parts, except for maybe a carburetor rebuild kit, but there aren't very many parts in that carb to fail or wear out except for the needle and seat. As long as you don't break the body gasket by accident during disassembly, you'll be fine.

Check the intake manifold gaskets carefully, where the manifold attaches to the engine block. You can get by with re-using the old ones, but if a gasket is blown or torn beyond repair and won't seal, the engine may only run on one cylinder. I was tracking this problem down for days on an old Kohler Magnum engine (running on one cylinder only), and discovered one side of the manifold had a blown gasket. Just my .02.

For those people on Blasterforum who don't know, that's an Onan P-series engine James is working on. They're very hard to kill and will run seemingly forever with just normal maintenance. And they sound oh-so-smooth once running. Just purr right along.

I tore both the carburetor body gasket and one intake manifold gasket. I'll be cutting new ones out of gasket paper though, I have all of the punches and cutters needed to remedy both of those problems.

I've heard reports of thousands of hours before major overhaul and 10's of thousands of hours before the block is out of bores.

The engine is natually balanced being a horizontally opposed twin and because it has a HUGE flywheel it should run VERY smooth.

This particular model is a P216G, same as the B43 blocks (save minor changes like the 3 quart oil pan on this engine )

 

[Braaaptor]

I tore both the carburetor body gasket and one intake manifold gasket. I'll be cutting new ones out of gasket paper though, I have all of the punches and cutters needed to remedy both of those problems.

I've heard reports of thousands of hours before major overhaul and 10's of thousands of hours before the block is out of bores.

The engine is natually balanced being a horizontally opposed twin and because it has a HUGE flywheel it should run VERY smooth.

This particular model is a P216G, same as the B43 blocks (save minor changes like the 3 quart oil pan on this engine )

They run smooth as silk. I love the sound.

My personal record for the most hours run on an Onan before a rebuild was a certain P220G that came in for carb work. It had 4,500 hours on the clock and still ran strong after the carburetor was repaired.

Be careful using gasket paper to replace the torn intake manifold gasket. It will work, but due to the close proximity of the intake and exhaust manifolds on that engine, the heat from the exhaust will eventually cook the gasket. The OE Onan intake gaskets are made of compressed heat-resistant material, much like a head gasket. Just FYI.

 

[slickerthanyou]

They run smooth as silk. I love the sound.

My personal record for the most hours run on an Onan before a rebuild was a certain P220G that came in for carb work. It had 4,500 hours on the clock and still ran strong after the carburetor was repaired.

Be careful using gasket paper to replace the torn intake manifold gasket. It will work, but due to the close proximity of the intake and exhaust manifolds on that engine, the heat from the exhaust will eventually cook the gasket. The OE Onan intake gaskets are made of compressed heat-resistant material, much like a head gasket. Just FYI.

Good info!! rep!

 

[sicivicdude]

This is for "proof of operation". I need to make sure that the generator head puts out properly before I can spend any more money on it.

I've located a complete gasket set (with the original heat resistant materials), rings, and camshaft bearings ( in case it needs those, I've seen some people complain that's what took their P series out)

Once I prove the engine can run and the generator head puts out power, I'm going to get a used muffler, change out the rusty ass headpipes, adjust the valves, re-ring the engine, and inspect the oil pump and camshaft bearings.

Thanks for the "heads-up" though, I appreciate all the help I can get on projects into the unknown!

 

[sicivicdude]

I tapped out each of the headbolt holes night to make SURE I'm not going to get one of the bolts wringing off again.... Each hole had to be flooded with lube and the tap took out boogered threads and carbon in nearly every hole.

The heads arrived today! Identical except for one minor difference. The fan shroud mounting bolt hole on the john deere heads are tapped in a different boss than the Hobart heads. This could be to a year model difference in the engine (1987 versus 1998) or a difference in application (lawn mower versus welder). Who knows! I drilled the proper bolt holes and tapped them 1/4"-20 These heads should work great!

 

[sicivicdude]

IT LIVES!!!!!!!!

Well, at least it runs.... I haven't got it to run long enough to test output, only to confirm that it can stay running past the starter "help" I ran it for about 30 seconds or so and then shut it down

So I got the oil filter adapter on this afternoon and put all of the covers back on and cut a new carburetor body gasket. I then tried for about an hour, to start the engine to no avail at all, not even a sputter. I took the spark plugs out and the cranking speed didn't change. I pulled the covers and both heads back off and checked the valves, 3 of the 4 valves were not seating. I pulled the muffler, intake manifold, and pushrod covers off and the 3 valves had no lash at all. A quick call to my resident small engine mechanic (Braaptor) and I had a ballpark figure for setting the lash. I got it set to .005" on all 4 valves and reinstalled everything. I sprayed some starting ether in it (had already flooded both plugs but didn't have any more to put in there) and it fired up for a split second the second touch of the starter switch. I rigged up a fuel cell to set on top of the engine and poured a little gas in it. I let it run for about 30 seconds or so and shut it back off.

I have to buy a 2 foot piece of 1/4" fuel line and a new fuel filter for it tomorrow.

Once I can get it to run for more than 30 seconds, I can test power output to confirm each of the rotary knob set points work.


I:I

 

[brandoz28]

woohooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that'll be a cool toy

 

[Paulie B]

Frame building party at your house woop woop

 

[sicivicdude]

Frame building party at your house woop woop

You don't know anyone who needs to uhhhh....... rent a good generator welder do you?

You could come down to my garage and fab with me anytime man.

 

[little3mil]

nice dude glad to hear she lives

 

[sicivicdude]

Very disappointing news.... Got the fuel line and filter on and it started up (with a little fiddling of course!) and ran reasonably smooth BUT it put out no power. I checked the 125VAC outputs and it was reading about 4 VAC....

So I did what I'm not known for..... called the manufacturer I:I. Hobart tech support is the shiz. The guy that answered the phone sounded like he had worked on a pile of this particular model welder before! He knew how the inside layout was from memory....

I told him a short bit of the history and he told me that 5V output is a collapsed magnetic field from the rotor. He said "that's noise" which means the rotor isn't getting energized.

For a quick generator lesson let's go through this.... Generators are basically made up of two competing magnetic fields. One is stationary, the other spinning. These are (at least in older generators) two electromagnets.

The "power" isn't taken off the spinning member (the rotor) but the outside coils surrounding the rotor.

Older generators didn't have a method to reliably bound permanent magnets into a small enough package to be efficient so they relied on a different sort of technology, the electromagnet.

The rotor is an electromagnet that generates a solid state magnetic field (versus a DC electric motor which produces an alternating magnetic field) meaning the rotor is polarized and kept that way throughout it's lifetime. One side is + and one side is -. In order to turn on the electromagnet, generator manufacturers relied on relatively small brushes (similar to a drill motor). Afterall, the field coil doesn't require much power to become an electromagnet, only that the power be constant. Hobart installed a system by which the 240VAC output from the outside coils is turned around and rectified and regulated down to 12VDC (what the exciter field coil needs to become an electromagnet). The brushes ride on what are called "slip rings" which transmit the power from the brush to the magnet. Those slip rings are pure spun copper rings pressed onto the generator rotor and then wired to the rotor itself.

Those rings get corroded slowly over time and the brushes get worn down over time.

The service tech told me how to access the brushes, check the spring tension on them, and replace them if necessary. I pulled the ones in this machine out and the slip ring was all crudded up and one of the brushes was worn dangerously short.

I went to the local Ace Hardware and picked up a drill motor brush of the same basic size and installed it. Started the engine and tested the output....BAM 240VAC on the output, ~70 VAC open circuit on the AC welding side and ~80 VAC open circuit on the DC welding side. Working just like it's supposed to be....

Now onto the next challenges; a muffler, rebuilding the sheet metal, getting an owners manual so I can see what the faded front panel is supposed to say, and probably tearing back into the engine to lap the valves.