Burgard +2+1 arms and Banshee spindles

[jesshamner]

First I want to say Hi. I'm new here. I have been doing a little research so I can build up my wife's blaster.

It is a 2001 model and has burgard +2+1 arms with banshee spindle and brakes from what I was told. My problem is that the camber is off really bad. Is this common with this setup? Is it possible that the spindles are wrong? They are adjusted out as far as I'm comfortable with and don't have much more to give.

 

[jesshamner]

How long does it usually take to get a response on here? I'm not impatient, just curious.

 

['blanshee'man]

Welcome to the forum.
well the set up are fairly common. how bad is really bad? Pics would help. But my guess its the shee spindles that are messing it up pretty bad, they have some mean camber to them. I would also check to see if they are indeed adjusted correctly from the last guy and if the frame is bent

 

[sheeblast]

get a picture. and normal wait time is 1-2 business days.

 

[sicivicdude]

Unless your foreign, in which case it's 3-5 business days LOL.

In all seriousness, how bad is real bad? Some spindles get the upper joint mouting point bent upwards in a wreck and get passed on to an unsuspecting buyer where they never run right again.

 

[norman420]

Jess,


Bought one with the same issues.

The geometry of the Blaster and Banshee spindles are NOT the same, giving you the camber issue. And I agree, they look like crap with the front wheels tipped in.

I bought a reamer and did the necessary machinist tricks to make the Blaster spindles work. Problem solved.

From what I have read, but don't know as fact. The Burgard people will do the necessary mods to make blaster spindles compatible with their a-arm at no charge. Without a Bridgeport Knee Milling machine I wouldn't try it by hand.

N

 

[jesshamner]

This is probably the best pic I have of it. The tires are low and the picture was taken too close to really see it. I guess it isn't terrible but it could be a lot better. I also added some other pics. Notice the welds on the left footpeg mount.

 

[DUALSTROKE]

I have run a set of burgard +2+1 for a few years now using banshee spindles with no problems what so ever.Here is a pic of the setup.

 

[jesshamner]

Jess,


Bought one with the same issues.

The geometry of the Blaster and Banshee spindles are NOT the same, giving you the camber issue. And I agree, they look like crap with the front wheels tipped in.

I bought a reamer and did the necessary machinist tricks to make the Blaster spindles work. Problem solved.

From what I have read, but don't know as fact. The Burgard people will do the necessary mods to make blaster spindles compatible with their a-arm at no charge. Without a Bridgeport Knee Milling machine I wouldn't try it by hand.

N

Thanks Norman. I read somewhere where you eluded to the same problem but I wan't sure if it was exactly like mine. I actually have a spare set of banshee spindles. I'm assuming I could send the spindles to Burgard to have them reamed the right way. Is this correct?

 

[jesshamner]

I have run a set of burgard +2+1 for a few years now using banshee spindles with no problems what so ever.Here is a pic of the setup.

Did you send your spindles to Burgard?

 

[DUALSTROKE]

My shee spindles were actually sent out to norman420 a few years ago and he reamed them and coated them for me.You can buy the bit but it is like $50+ for it.I don't reccomend sending anything to izzy burgard.Burgard makes great products but there product support is not the greatest.I have spoke to izzy awhile back and it was like talking to a wall.I ordered my set opriginally but found out the top a-arms were for +1's and not +2's so I sent them back and 3 weeks later got my new top set.If you have time to wait and are in no rush then by all means go that route.Let me see if I can find the link to a reamer for you.

 

[DUALSTROKE]

snap on part # r121 Here is a link,you may be able to find it cheaper elsewhere.

R121, Reamer, Tapered, 1/2"-1" Taper

 

[jesshamner]

So they sent you the wrong upper a arms? And then they took them back and made everything right. That sounds ok in my book. That kind of stuff happens every now and then. Recently a friend of mine bought arms and tie rods from GT Thunder and Laz sent tie rods that were an inch too long. We missed a ride because of it but Laz made things right. It's not the greatest experience but I don't see anything wrong with that kind of customer service.

Norman, are you offering this service? If so, how much?

 

[DUALSTROKE]

So they sent you the wrong upper a arms? And then they took them back and made everything right. That sounds ok in my book. That kind of stuff happens every now and then. Recently a friend of mine bought arms and tie rods from GT Thunder and Laz sent tie rods that were an inch too long. We missed a ride because of it but Laz made things right. It's not the greatest experience but I don't see anything wrong with that kind of customer service.

Norman, are you offering this service? If so, how much?

They deffinately took care of the problem which is great but 3+ weeks was too long.I had to send mine back before he would send another set.Again they made things right but turn around time was slow.I still would purchase from them again cause I beleive they make a great product and I have beaten these a-arms good and they still look great.I would send Norman a p.m. and see what he can do for you.If you get stuck and need any pics send me a p.m. in case this thread gets buried down the road.

 

[jesshamner]

They deffinately took care of the problem which is great but 3+ weeks was too long.I had to send mine back before he would send another set.Again they made things right but turn around time was slow.I still would purchase from them again cause I beleive they make a great product and I have beaten these a-arms good and they still look great.I would send Norman a p.m. and see what he can do for you.If you get stuck and need any pics send me a p.m. in case this thread gets buried down the road.

Yeah, I have to admit, it would suck to wait 3 weeks for a part that should have been right the first time. Thanks for the information. There seems to be a lot of good info around here.

 

[best]

You can measure camber with a carpenter level.
Set the Blaster on level ground, put level on good edges of the rims.
Shim with same size blocks if the tire is in the way or to inner part of rim
if the outer edges are bad (his were).

My son's Blaster had an off camber tire from a bent spindle.
(bent just below the top ball joint socket)
Removed it, a bit of acetylene heat and we straightened it and rechecked it.

In a perfect world you would buy another spindle, not use heat or rebend,
but this the real world. Look for cracks and use care.

 

[jesshamner]

That's good info. That's actually how I have checked camber before. I just haven't checked it on the blaster because it was so far off, I could see it.

So basically what you all are telling me is that even with banshee spindles, I should be able to get the camber where it needs to be. That's really what I'm looking for. I'm not sure if they're bent or it was a bad ream job, or possibly some other weird thing going on there. But now I know that something is definitely wrong. If I need to, I'll send off the spare set of banshee spindles to have them reamed correctly. I gave up looking for a cheap set of 03 or newer spindles a long time ago.

 

[DUALSTROKE]

That's good info. That's actually how I have checked camber before. I just haven't checked it on the blaster because it was so far off, I could see it.

So basically what you all are telling me is that even with banshee spindles, I should be able to get the camber where it needs to be. That's really what I'm looking for. I'm not sure if they're bent or it was a bad ream job, or possibly some other weird thing going on there. But now I know that something is definitely wrong. If I need to, I'll send off the spare set of banshee spindles to have them reamed correctly. I gave up looking for a cheap set of 03 or newer spindles a long time ago.

03 or newer spindles still won't work with burgard a-arms.The top pinch bolt screws everything up.You are right they cost a fortune.Norman420 makes some sweet spindles which do the same as the 03 and newer.Keep us posted on what you find out as I am curious also.Good luck

 

[Larry's Shee]

So there's no adjustment left in upper or lower joints? Are you sure you have the right length shocks? Your arms look to be at steeper angle than the other picture posted. Maybe back preload off on shocks.

 

[jesshamner]

There might be too much preload in the shocks but I don't think that will affect camber in this direction. If camber is changed by full extension, then it should be camber in the other direction.