starting first kick, carb related???

[csrt4]

so when i first bought my blaster it was rough, wouldn't idle at all, but started first kick.. ever since i sealed all the engine leaks and got my carb tuned in with a 300 jet, the blaster no longer starts first kick.. it now takes 6-8 kicks when it is cold to start then wont instantly idle until i warm it up for about 30 sec holding the throttle to idle. once it is to operating temp it will fire over first kick all day long.. even if i let it cool to the point it's warm to the touch it will still fire first kick..
if i let it sit over night and try to start it the next day it takes 6-8 kicks... anyone have any input on how to startup first couple kicks cold??

edit: i have torn the carb down a few weeks back and cleaned everything and blew it out with an air compressor.. also my motor is air tight and held 7psi for over 10minutes...

 

[EZRider76]

so when i first bought my blaster it was rough, but started first kick.. ever since i sealed all the engine leaks and got my carb tuned in with a 300 jet, the blaster no longer starts first kick.. it now takes 6-8 kicks when it is cold to start then wont instantly idle until i warm it up for about 30 sec holding the throttle to idle. once it is to operating temp it will fire over first kick all day long.. even if i let it cool to the point it's warm to the touch it will still fire first kick..
if i let it sit over night and try to start it the next day it takes 6-8 kicks... anyone have any input on how to startup first couple kicks cold??

What is your compression?

 

[csrt4]

What is your compression?

thats one test i haven't done, but when kick starting it feels and sounds like good compression.. and now that everything is tuned in it really rips!!! like 1st 3 gears tires come off the ground..

and if it was compression related, why when it ran like sh*t it would start first kick, now that its tuned in it takes a few kicks to start

 

[EZRider76]

thats one test i haven't done, but when kick starting it feels and sounds like good compression.. and now that everything is tuned in it really rips!!! like 1st 3 gears tires come off the ground..

and if it was compression related, why when it ran like sh*t it would start first kick, now that its tuned in it takes a few kicks to start

Well, there was enough air in the AFR with all the leaks that the little spark might have multiplied the combustion enough to fire it up...just a theory. Anyhow, now with the leaks sealed up, it is going to take good/better compression maybe to help the fuel combust. I would test it and go from there, because with bad rings that aren't sealing as well...allowing blow by...it won't allow for the right amount of compression to combust the fuel. Once it warms up and things swell, it will have better compression. Do it warmed up and cold, I'm not positive, there shouldn't be anymore than 10-15psi difference...maybe less.

The only other things, maybe you've changed your fuel mixture (32:1) and there isn't enough oil to coat the rings and help with the compression....that might be a long stretch though.

 

[csrt4]

Well, there was enough air in the AFR with all the leaks that the little spark might have multiplied the combustion enough to fire it up...just a theory. Anyhow, now with the leaks sealed up, it is going to take good/better compression maybe to help the fuel combust. I would test it and go from there, because with bad rings that aren't sealing as well...allowing blow by...it won't allow for the right amount of compression to combust the fuel. Once it warms up and things swell, it will have better compression. Do it warmed up and cold, I'm not positive, there shouldn't be anymore than 10-15psi difference...maybe less.

The only other things, maybe you've changed your fuel mixture (32:1) and there isn't enough oil to coat the rings and help with the compression....that might be a long stretch though.

i was also thinking about the expansion when its warmed up... and this also started when i went to the 32:1 mix and off the direct injection...

 

[EZRider76]

32:1 is more oil than the injection system of 40:1. Did you change the type of 2-Stroke oil? I don't really know for sure, I'm taking a shot in the dark at your dilemma. You could be fouling your plug, and it is too coated to spark until a few kicks cleans it off. Check your plug when you pull it to do the compression test. I also wonder if you are getting a weak spark. Also, how is your air filter, clean? It might be choking until it gets warmed up too. Hmmm....so many little things. Definitely start with that compression test though.

 

[JBRoc01blaster]

Are you using your choke to start it when its cold ? Did you clean your choke circuit when you cleaned the carb ? What kind of plug are you using ? B8ES

 

[csrt4]

32:1 is more oil than the injection system of 40:1. Did you change the type of 2-Stroke oil? I don't really know for sure, I'm taking a shot in the dark at your dilemma. You could be fouling your plug, and it is too coated to spark until a few kicks cleans it off. Check your plug when you pull it to do the compression test. I also wonder if you are getting a weak spark. Also, how is your air filter, clean? It might be choking until it gets warmed up too. Hmmm....so many little things. Definitely start with that compression test though.

well i have been running klotz benzol 2 stroke oil(smells so damn good!!!), also new air filter.. and as for the spark plug i was using an old spark plug till it got warm then threw a new one in for the plug chops, maybe i will try to throw an new one in again.. could be fouled just enough to have a hard start...

thanks for the input man!!. the main reason i am trying to get it to start first kick again is, i am going to sell it and don't want to be lowballed just because it wont start within 3 kicks... i came across an awesome deal on an 07' polaris outlaw 525 for $1200 from a close friend. plus the trail riding i do isn't ideal for a 2 stroke blaster, lots of HUGE hill climbs that i barely make it up now..

 

[JBRoc01blaster]

Did you check your float height after cleaning the carb ? You might have thrown the float height off when taking the carb apart and cleaning it. If the float height is off even a little bit that could cause flooding which would make for hard starting, and that could be the reason you have to kick it so many times to clear the extra gas out before it fires up.

 

[EZRider76]

well i have been running klotz benzol 2 stroke oil(smells so damn good!!!), also new air filter.. and as for the spark plug i was using an old spark plug till it got warm then threw a new one in for the plug chops, maybe i will try to throw an new one in again.. could be fouled just enough to have a hard start...

thanks for the input man!!. the main reason i am trying to get it to start first kick again is, i am going to sell it and don't want to be lowballed just because it wont start within 3 kicks... i came across an awesome deal on an 07' polaris outlaw 525 for $1200 from a close friend. plus the trail riding i do isn't ideal for a 2 stroke blaster, lots of HUGE hill climbs that i barely make it up now..

If you're bogging down on hill climbs, your either fouling plugs or have low compression.

That's a pretty good deal on the Outlaw, I'm not much of a fan of Polaris though. The RZR is the only thing they put out that I care for.

 

[csrt4]

Did you check your float height after cleaning the carb ? You might have thrown the float height off when taking the carb apart and cleaning it. If the float height is off even a little bit that could cause flooding which would make for hard starting, and that could be the reason you have to kick it so many times to clear the extra gas out before it fires up.

that would make sense, i will look into the float height.. could have bumped it off when i was jetting too... it doesn't leak out the overflow but will try that..

also when its cold, i found it makes it easier to start if i push the throttle 3x before i kick it...

 

[EZRider76]

that would make sense, i will look into the float height.. could have bumped it off when i was jetting too... it doesn't leak out the overflow but will try that..

also when its cold, i found it makes it easier to start if i push the throttle 3x before i kick it...

Your increasing the fuel vapors for combustion...makes me lean back toward the compression.

 

[csrt4]

Are you using your choke to start it when its cold ? Did you clean your choke circuit when you cleaned the carb ? What kind of plug are you using ? B8ES

yes starting with choke pulled, the choke circuit was the only thing i couldn't get apart, i tried pulling on it hard to pop it out, but wouldn't come out and didn't want to break it..the only thing that popped off was the black knob...lol

i know if i pull the choke when warmed up it will shut off..

 

[JBRoc01blaster]

That's an indication that your choke circuit is working properly so that's good news. I think that because your now at 32-1 there's more oil and less gas, so your engine is starving for gas. You need a bigger main jet to compensate for the extra oil. That would also explain your problem making it up hills. I use to struggle up hills and had to floor it in first, I went from a 230 main to a 260 and now I make it up hills in 2nd and 3rd with ease. I say you should definately throw in a bigger main jet !

 

[csrt4]

That's an indication that your choke circuit is working properly so that's good news. I think that because your now at 32-1 there's more oil and less gas, so your engine is starving for gas. You need a bigger main jet to compensate for the extra oil. That would also explain your problem making it up hills. I use to struggle up hills and had to floor it in first, I went from a 230 main to a 260 and now I make it up hills in 2nd and 3rd with ease. I say you should definately throw in a bigger main jet !

Lol Ahhh no... these hills are no joke.. my friends 700r has issues on some of them , and I make them with the front end off the ground most the way up.. just want so.egging bigger with more torque down low.. beyond the starting issue, it runs top notch.. im running a Fmf gold series gnarley pipe with riva silencer, and airbox removed.. I don't see what a main jet would have to do with starting...
I did a full session of plug chopping and landed on a 290, then bumped it up to the 300 to keep it safe... like I said it rips pretty good, and I have this carb finally tuned in pretty damn good ...

 

[JBRoc01blaster]

Yeah your right about the main not having much to do with starting, as for the hills I didn't know where your jetting was at so I thought that could be the problem. The only other factors that would cause hard starting are 1. Incorrect air/fuel mixture which could be caused by a dirty/clogged pilot jet 2. Engine flooded ( wrong float height/fuel too high like we were talkin about ) 3. Weak spark and 4. Low compression.

 

[csrt4]

Thanks man, I am going to be looking into the 4 you posted...

 

[JBRoc01blaster]

No problem bro, hope you get it figured out !