some engine carnage pics/ possible build thread

[aaronsoccer4]

So I left my bike at my good friends house who I thought I could trust. appearantly not he was saying that all he did was try and kick it with the killswitch off(bullshit)

Its a wsm piston from the previous owner but it looks cast and poor quality.
unless this guy has legs like shwartsneggar I don't see him doing this with his foot dut the damage is done some I'm over it

A little scoring

this is what really makes me mad now I need a new case. Anybody have one laying around they wanna sell me cheap???

from the looks of it I def. need a new rod the crank looks to be ok.


now is where I need your help, If a new rod is 90 and I can get a hot rod +4for 145 new or a vitos stuffer for 160 new I might as well pony up the extra fiddy pesos, no? I know I will have to trench the case for the hot rods does any one have pics, That is some thing I can do myself? Also I do almost all trail riding no dragging would a stroker be beneficial to this

Also since I am already buying a piston and sending it out for a bore I might as well get it ported. this again is where you guys come in should I nut up and go big bore, triple port, or just aggressive porting what are my options

I was thinking about resleeving my cylinder with a BBK or would I be better off buying a kit in the classifieds for cheap

I also want to add I will be chambering the head and possibly lightening the flywheel

here are some pics of my portwork how does it look?

 

[sicivicdude]

I see some relatively light scoring on that piston from (what appears to be) prior events so it's not lived a charmed life but nothing that would indicate any real problem with it prior to it coming apart.

How long/hard was that piston ran before it came apart and was the engine making a clacking noise before it came apart?

You need to have that top end mic'd for size and make sure it wasn't piston to cylinder clearance that took it out before putting that engine back together.

That thrust washer on that crankshaft is toast. If you're going to stick with the stock stroke crank, you can get that one rebuilt relatively inexpensive ($100 including return shipping from Competitive Crankshafts http://www.blasterforum.com/sale-18/crankshaft-rebuilds-42099/) or purchase a new replacement.

I wouldn't go +4 stroker for a trail build. The +3 stroker crank from Vito's gives you the extra timing and area without the case trenching.

I hate to even suggest it. but that may not have been your friends fault at all. I have had people bring engines in for rebuild running (like running, riding, and driving!) with a busted intake skirt. They were making a lot of noise but the people brought them to me because they were hard to start and idled way up when they did run! I've done a case repair, bore, hone, and replacement piston and they were generally off to the races again.

 

[Blaaster]

Kicking over with the kill switch in the off position sure aint gonna make that much carnage.

That motor looks like it has been ridden long and hard over a period of time and has been plain worn out.

If the piston was slapping around in the bore, even a gentle Granny putter around the block, could have been the straw that broke the Camels back.

 

[sicivicdude]

Kicking over with the kill switch in the off position sure aint gonna make that much carnage.

That motor looks like it has been ridden long and hard over a period of time and has been plain worn out.

If the piston was slapping around in the bore, even a gentle Granny putter around the block, could have been the straw that broke the Camels back.

True. What I was trying to express in my original post was that he may not have done anything really wrong to cause that if the bore was already worn out. I doubt that he was kicking it over and that happened (cases break when the piston piece drops into the cases and is caught between the crankshaft and cases at speed) but he may not have been wailing on it un-necessarily either when it happened.

 

[slickerthanyou]

So I left my bike at my good friends house who I thought I could trust. appearantly not he was saying that all he did was try and kick it with the killswitch off(bullshit)

Its a wsm piston from the previous owner but it looks cast and poor quality.
unless this guy has legs like shwartsneggar I don't see him doing this with his foot dut the damage is done some I'm over it from the looks of it I def. need a new rod the crank looks to be ok.

now is where I need your help, If a new rod is 90 and I can get a hot rod +4for 145 new or a vitos stuffer for 160 new I might as well pony up the extra fiddy pesos, no? I know I will have to trench the case for the hot rods does any one have pics, That is some thing I can do myself? Also I do almost all trail riding no dragging would a stroker be beneficial to this

Also since I am already buying a piston and sending it out for a bore I might as well get it ported. this again is where you guys come in should I nut up and go big bore, triple port, or just aggressive porting what are my options

I was thinking about resleeving my cylinder with a BBK or would I be better off buying a kit in the classifieds for cheap

I also want to add I will be chambering the head and possibly lightening the flywheel

Have to agree that that wasn't all caused by kicking it over. Answer to your questions are my opinions- Yes I would go for a +3 stroker crank will give ya about 5 HP increase when ported/matched to the stroke, I have it and love it!

As far as what kind of porting, for trails and woods I like an agressive trail port or MX port, as some call it , as I am in 2-3-4th most on the trails and normally not at WOT for any length of time. I Like the torque and top speed performance of this type of porting, I am running triple exhaust now and like that also. Haven't ran boysen ports yet maybe next round!

Also definetly have the head done for the +3 much much better when all matched up. If you do your work yourself you can follow the porting vids for starters and call Ken with any Questions- http://www.blasterforum.com/engine-13/cylinder-porting-diy-25773/

I'd stay away from resleeving, if your sold on a BBK- Talk to Mr. Oconner 860-230-5003 he can help with aquiring a BBK setup/porting, all machine work!

This may also help ya- http://www.blasterforum.com/engine-13/kor-engine-assembly-no-crank-puller-needed-51169/

There are alot of option, just have to read up and choose for yourself! BTW- Don't ever use those green paper gaskets!

 

[aaronsoccer4]

the engine was abnormally noisy since I purchased it with a fresh rebuild I was almost sure it was just the engine because 2 strokes are noisy it never got worse so I could not hear any slap but I did ride this thing really hard I only got one season out of it but I did ride quite a bit, me and my friends had an ongoing joke that we cant kill this thing I have had it in some crazy sh*t. it probly wasn't his fault and I knew that but i was just pissed that he wouldn't admit to riding it when I know he was. yeah I have read A ton of horror stories about the green gaskets, that was from the PO. Well I am dead set on the stuffer now... I just have to figure out the bbk situation im going to email Ken oconnor and flotek

 

[Blaaster]

/\ /\ /\ You can kill anything if you flog it long enough.

 

[sporty982000]

Iwould have to agree with what many have said and my own view on the pictures. that piston looked to have had some blow buy for awhile.

My guess is, you wind out, that the lower part of the cylinder wall is worn and out of spec. resulting in piston slap.

So don't be to hard on your friend, as Hes not likely to blame for failure.
I'm also not sure when WSM pistons, if they have changed at all, But I have put two in two of the blasters I have. I have to say, they does not appear to be a WSM piston. But I could be wrong.


Sporty

 

[dksix]

Will compression be low if the cylinder is worn enough to allow enough piston slap to the point that skirt breakage is likely?

 

[blasterBruce]

That's either a Stock Art or Wsm Piston pictured , Wsm Is made by the same company that Yamaha Uses for there Art Cast Pistons

 

[aaronsoccer4]

/\ /\ /\ You can kill anything if you flog it long enough.

FLOG?? wtf is that

 

[aaronsoccer4]

for the non beleivers heres a pic of the wsm

here are of a few pics of my DIY wannabe homeade hinson clutchbasket

Before

after

I did the inner basket also I don't have pics though



now I am just waiting to hear back from ken occonnor on some prices and the build will begin

someone sell me a case!!!!!!

 

[Blasterr]

You needing a motor?

 

[sporty982000]

Thanks for posting the pics of the wsm mark on the piston.


here is what mine looked like new, before I put it in. I wonder about the coating, how long it stays or if thats something they only started doing a few years ago ? anyone know ?


I wonder how long the coating lasts, if indeed yours at one point and time, did come with the coating.

Sporty

 

[sporty982000]

Don't know what your budget it.


Butif you cant find a used case, which I see them on e-bay sometimes for a fiar price, a 1/2 seem to run from $60 to $100.

You might also check with local aluminuim repair shop in your area, if you have the broken piece, they could likely weld it for around $35.00

Just tossing that out there, as for something for you to consider as a option.

Sporty

 

[sicivicdude]

Will compression be low if the cylinder is worn enough to allow enough piston slap to the point that skirt breakage is likely?

Believe it or not, I've had one come in with 110 psi of compression (slightly low but not THAT low) and the entire intake skirt missing (with the hole in the case that follows). The owner brought it to me complaining that it was hard to start and would rev up really high once it warmed up.

You could have bought me a nickel when I took off the top end when it failed a leakdown test horribly (I could get it to about 1psi and it wouldn't go any higher no matter how long I held the air to it! ) and the entire lower half of the intake skirt was gone.

The piston to cylinder clearance was at about .005" (instead of the recommended .0015") which apparently was enough to let it flop around like a fish until it snapped the piston skirt off but it still hadn't lost compression enough to give up.

FLOG?? wtf is that

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/floghttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/flog

Number 1 specifically. He means that if you beat on an engine hard enough, long enough that you can kill it eventually. Just a matter of what's going to fly apart first!

 

[sicivicdude]

There are cases available in the for sale section every so often for decent prices. You can run across them not ridiculous on Ebay every now and then.

I recommend if you're going to get it repaired you try to locate a local shop that will weld cast aluminum (not an easy task as most will turn you away) to save on shipping costs.

As a last option, I weld aluminum cases to repair them. I generally charge $50 plus the ride (actual return shipping) for a moderate repair like that.

 

[sporty982000]

Believe it or not, I've had one come in with 110 psi of compression (slightly low but not THAT low) and the entire intake skirt missing (with the hole in the case that follows). The owner brought it to me complaining that it was hard to start and would rev up really high once it warmed up.

You could have bought me a nickel when I took off the top end when it failed a leakdown test horribly (I could get it to about 1psi and it wouldn't go any higher no matter how long I held the air to it! ) and the entire lower half of the intake skirt was gone.

The piston to cylinder clearance was at about .005" (instead of the recommended .0015") which apparently was enough to let it flop around like a fish until it snapped the piston skirt off but it still hadn't lost compression enough to give up.



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/floghttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/flog

Number 1 specifically. He means that if you beat on an engine hard enough, long enough that you can kill it eventually. Just a matter of what's going to fly apart first!

I totally am with Sicvic on this one,

your compression, is created from the rings and the upper part of the piston.

The lower part of the piston skirt is below that compression area and while it may make less compression some, it would still ride and run. And unless you listened for noise or what to listen for or ect. It's something, that is not as easy to spot, without taking the top end off and checking it and many do not have the inside micrometer to check the reading and specs.

So, the average person, would either have to buy the tool to check the specs or take it to someone or a shop to measure.

My person thoughts, are if you got a used blaster or bought it new, this is something to check every two/three years, especially if you do allot of riding or hard riding.


Now, it could have also been, thought it would be wrong not to type that all out and not to mention or add.

That, sometimes, people dont check the specs on the crank/rod. and id bet more often then not on a person doing a rebuild themselves, might not take the the time to check the side to side play on the rod/crank. With a feeler gauge.

I imagine, its possible, that often, people just do a top end rebuild and not fully inspect the rod bearing and thrust washers out for play like they should.
So, a exmaple, could be, someone does a top end, but does not do a good job at checking the specs for the rod/crank.

Adding in a new piston or bore or hone,ect. Is not goin to prevent a early failure of a piston breaking, if the roc bearing is worn out and out spec.
I dont know how long it would last, until the piston got banged around enough to crack it and then break off.


I mention this, because, it was hard for me to tell in the pictures, but usually when aluminum or cast breaks, its shiny there, compared to the old.

You might take a look and see if its darker in some spots along the break. where it could have been cracked for a awhile, before it gave way.


Sporty

 

[Blaaster]

Number 1 specifically. He means that if you beat on an engine hard enough, long enough that you can kill it eventually. Just a matter of what's going to fly apart first!

Flog. Nothing lost in translation, trouble is we speak a different lingo here in Oz.

 

[aaronsoccer4]

You needing a motor?

nope just the cases well I really only need the left side(stator) side


Ill give some green to anyone that can help me locate one in good shape for a decent price

ebay only has one and they want like 100 for it