Porting and polishing

[YFS101]

done properly yes its worth every penny.... its not free
it costs money to have a proffessional with the know how and the tools to do a good job other wise its a complete waist of time and money

 

[hammertime#205]

will a ported blaster have more hp than a stock or slight moded banshee?

 

[99LRDblaster]

will a ported blaster have more hp than a stock or slight moded banshee?

No....most likely not unless it's a very aggressive drag port with a large carb....in which case it will lack bottom end power for drags. Banshee's are 36-38hp stock. Blasters are 20ish hp stock. Pipe, porting, air intake mods, reeds, head rechambered and milled, with a solid carb setup might get you around 35ish hp with a GREAT setup running high compression on race gas, so it won't make more power than a stock banshee until you go up to a ported 240 or a 240 kit with a new cylinder that has completely different port mapping then you can hit 40hp. Might be able to take a stock shee with a good port job though simply because of less drag and power to weight ratio though.

 

[scotj77]

I think a highly modded trl blaster would beat or tie a completely stock banshee.

 

[Larry's Shee]

done properly yes its worth every penny.... its not free
it costs money to have a proffessional with the know how and the tools to do a good job other wise its a complete waist of time and money

If this ^^^ were a true statement, why would Ken O'Conner post a video on how to port? Granted he might be only showing enough to get 75% of what his port job gets, But for the little time and money it will cost it's worth it if on a tight budget. Obviously he won't show you all the tricks. Good info on McDizzy site also.

The real meat of it comes from knowing why , what, and how to alter port timing and shapes. That comes from educating yourself. I:I

 

[99LRDblaster]

If this ^^^ were a true statement, why would Ken O'Conner post a video on how to port? Granted he might be only showing enough to get 75% of what his port job gets, But for the little time and money it will cost it's worth it if on a tight budget. Obviously he won't show you all the tricks. Good info on McDizzy site also.

The real meat of it comes from knowing why , what, and how to alter port timing and shapes. That comes from educating yourself. I:I

It also comes from a lot of R&D and customer feedback over years of work, so unless you have 30 cylinders to practice on, I wouldn't recommend it. Sure, you could port it and get more power......simply cleaning up casting flaws and cleaning up the intake bridge, sharpening transfers, etc. will do that....but when you start playing with things vertically and dealing with angles within the engine, it becomes a lot more complex in theory and in reality. It takes time and experience to "perfect" porting. So, can you do it?....sure......will you be able to do it as well as other builders on here that have done numerous engines?........I highly doubt it.

 

[YFS101]

Without changing port timing and angles, volume and compression ratios etc you not doing squat to gain HP. A heavy clean up job will give you maybe 1-2HP at best. Just as a bbk does not do much without port work.
Larry is not showing you 75%.... hes showing you about 25% of what is involved in an actual port job.
The average joe on this site will have a hard time understanding the Specs that mac Dizzy shares on his site and even like I already said most dont own the tools to start a port job like Rick explains. Your not going to port a steel sleeve with little dremal bits and a dremal tool.

Sorry but cleaning up casting flaws is NOT a port job.
It only takes a newbie having the burr jump once, and nick the cylinder and now he needs to rebore it... so you think its worth the hundreds of dollars it could cost for cleaning up casting flaws for an extre HP?

porting should be let to professionals with years of practice and the proper tools.

 

[sicivicdude]

YFS101, I wonder how you think the seasoned engine builders figured it out? A genie in a bottle? A fairy god mother?

No, they took a rotary tool to a cylinder and knicked it and cursed and ruined things. Once they had done it enough times they got good enough at it they could afford to sell their wares to other people.

Is a home brew "port job" going to be as finely TUNED as a professional porters work? No, someone who's been doing it for years not only has a finely skilled hand it (no mistakes) but they have experimented enough to be able to understand how changing parameters will affect the finished product and can adjust those changes to change the finished product. They can not only port a cylinder but port the cylinder with a final goal in mind.

Can someone with a rotary tool port a cylinder with the same specs as a professional engine builder? Absolutely, after enough learning and reading (and probably making bunches of mistakes) someone out in the garage with a rotary tool can port a cylinder to the same specs as a professional engine builder. They don't have the time and resources to experiment as much to fine tune that work but if you have the specs to cut to (the dimensions the ports should be) and enough patience to make it so, a handheld tool CAN do the job. Hell, Ken posted video's on youtube of him doing the job with a handheld tool. I know what he posted is not a true port job, it's more of a clean up than anything else but the process is the same to go even wilder. It just depends on how deep you want to go down the rabbit hole.

I absolutely resent anyone suggesting that there is only one way to skin a cat. Time and time again the "proven logic" has been proven wrong by people who weren't afraid to take a chance. It's not the easy road and if you only have one cylinder and it has to be right the first time, then a professional engine builder is probably the way to go.

If you've got time and patience and don't mind making mistakes and starting over, rotary tools are cheap and a heck of a lot of fun to play with. If you make mistakes, make sure you learn from them. Figure out why things happened the way they did. Once you learn WHY you can change the outcome next time.

I have two cylinders and both have been "custom ported" :-D. I had tons of fun playing with them. I learned a heck of a lot about engine design and theory. I also learned a lot of respect for what it is these guys do. I'm a tinkerer by nature and will sacrifice the absolute power output in order to be able to say that I did it. I take pride in the fact that it was by my hand, not anyone else's.

 

[99LRDblaster]

YFS101, I wonder how you think the seasoned engine builders figured it out? A genie in a bottle? A fairy god mother?

No, they took a rotary tool to a cylinder and knicked it and cursed and ruined things. Once they had done it enough times they got good enough at it they could afford to sell their wares to other people.

Is a home brew "port job" going to be as finely TUNED as a professional porters work? No, someone who's been doing it for years not only has a finely skilled hand it (no mistakes) but they have experimented enough to be able to understand how changing parameters will affect the finished product and can adjust those changes to change the finished product. They can not only port a cylinder but port the cylinder with a final goal in mind.

Can someone with a rotary tool port a cylinder with the same specs as a professional engine builder? Absolutely, after enough learning and reading (and probably making bunches of mistakes) someone out in the garage with a rotary tool can port a cylinder to the same specs as a professional engine builder. They don't have the time and resources to experiment as much to fine tune that work but if you have the specs to cut to (the dimensions the ports should be) and enough patience to make it so, a handheld tool CAN do the job. Hell, Ken posted video's on youtube of him doing the job with a handheld tool. I know what he posted is not a true port job, it's more of a clean up than anything else but the process is the same to go even wilder. It just depends on how deep you want to go down the rabbit hole.

I absolutely resent anyone suggesting that there is only one way to skin a cat. Time and time again the "proven logic" has been proven wrong by people who weren't afraid to take a chance. It's not the easy road and if you only have one cylinder and it has to be right the first time, then a professional engine builder is probably the way to go.

If you've got time and patience and don't mind making mistakes and starting over, rotary tools are cheap and a heck of a lot of fun to play with. If you make mistakes, make sure you learn from them. Figure out why things happened the way they did. Once you learn WHY you can change the outcome next time.

I have two cylinders and both have been "custom ported" :-D. I had tons of fun playing with them. I learned a heck of a lot about engine design and theory. I also learned a lot of respect for what it is these guys do. I'm a tinkerer by nature and will sacrifice the absolute power output in order to be able to say that I did it. I take pride in the fact that it was by my hand, not anyone else's.

I understand your take. I do a lot of the same stuff myself, but porting isn't one of those things....why?......because I don't have the experience(and can't afford to screw up), nor the finished product(R&D) to turn out a product that reputable engine builders do....that's their job and understandably so, so I leave my performance in the hands of somebody that knows what they are doing. Doing your own port job is typically a high risk/moderate reward scenario if you haven't done it before. Now if you have done it before and learned from it and are looking into it.....then yea no prob.

I completely understand your side though......I just choose not to do it.....at least not starting out with a Blaster....maybe a moped or something where I can afford the time and money to screw up and/or make something elss stellar than others, but for the Blaster, that's a tough one to jump in to as a newb from a financial and time standpoint. I know you are a smart guy that has the insight to look into it, but a lot of people just mimic acts and go in "lost" and just burn themselves, so I have a hard time suggesting it unless they seek out advice from others that have done it and know what works....2 very hard things to come by. Just my 2 cents.

 

[sicivicdude]

Which is why I said it's not the easy road and if you can't afford the mistakes, contact an engine builder.

Oh, and the way I see it: a moped, blaster, or a bugatti. It doesn't matter, if you screw it up you've still got to replace it and if you afford the bugatti in the first place you can afford to replace the parts! HAHA!

 

[YFS101]

well there you have it folks

all of you can now port your cylinders and have great results.
No need for sending them out and spending money for work you can easily do yourself
get practicing on your own cylinders.... they are cheap if you screw up and its a lot of fun...
and with a dremal tool its easy...
8-|

 

[mmajay]

Porting is the best bang for your buck but i wouldnt count on running a banshee. I ride with a banshee thats stock besides toomey and jets and he freakin kicks my blasters ass on the low end and the top and my blaster aint stock by no means.

 

[N8tsNastyBlasty]

I have very successfully ported my own cylinders on 4 different 2strokes and a handful of aircooled vw's over the years. My dad taught me how on cars and i did hours and hours of research into port angle ,blowdown,port time are port timing and drew off of what i had read and seen on others (mac dizzy, flowtek, graham bell?) before i tryed it. I did all of my port work with files ,a cordless drill, a rotary tool with flex attachment(knock off dremmel),sand paper, a printed degree wheel, digilal caliper and a sharpie. Diamond bits and stones will cut into a cylinder!!!

Yfs101 I know U are right about the fact that most wont understand all of the concepts involved in an awesome port job but some of us can handle it.For those of us willing to try and tapp in to the potential of a 200cc 2stroke it's worth every hour spent on it. I spent dozens of hours researching and suggest others do the same before going at it. Im still learning but thats the point ,Im learning!!!

 

[99LRDblaster]

Porting is the best bang for your buck but i wouldnt count on running a banshee. I ride with a banshee thats stock besides toomey and jets and he freakin kicks my blasters ass on the low end and the top and my blaster aint stock by no means.

My buddy had a Shee with T5s and filter kit......my Blaster isn't coming close to touching that without MAJOR $$$. A stock Shee is significantly weaker though. Like most 2 strokes aftermarket pipes make a night and day difference.

 

[Rubbersalt]

I know after N8t ported his, i tried a hand at mine. We are brothers, and I've been there watching and researching. This last build of his.. god damn that thing is MOVING.

I ported out my YT175 3 wheeler. I went from lagging behind my klt200 3 wheeler(stock) about 4 quad lengths to running out in front about 9 lengths. I didn't need to bore it out either, They run with the tiny nicks and dings just fine. If that wasn't true - then they wouldn't work with ports in them. For my first port job, I could have done better, but that thing HAULS ASS.

I'm currently working on my spare YT175 cylinder. I've opened the intake up to accept the MUCH larger blaster reed(yt175 is like half the size lol). All this info is on a different sight though. 3wheelerworld.com

 

[99LRDblaster]

I know after N8t ported his, i tried a hand at mine. We are brothers, and I've been there watching and researching. This last build of his.. god damn that thing is MOVING.

I ported out my YT175 3 wheeler. I went from lagging behind my klt200 3 wheeler(stock) about 4 quad lengths to running out in front about 9 lengths. I didn't need to bore it out either, They run with the tiny nicks and dings just fine. If that wasn't true - then they wouldn't work with ports in them. For my first port job, I could have done better, but that thing HAULS ASS.

I'm currently working on my spare YT175 cylinder. I've opened the intake up to accept the MUCH larger blaster reed(yt175 is like half the size lol). All this info is on a different sight though. 3wheelerworld.com

Yea.......until your ring catches one at around 8500rpm and you find the imprint of it on your head and your crankcase.

 

[YFS101]

I agree but some of you guys are missing the point.. if someone needs to ask if porting is worth taking an engine apart...they obviously dont know anything about porting.
if they are worried about just taking it apart they should be really worried abiut messing it up and costing them a new bore and piston kit.

Sure if you have the knowledge and the tools go for it, but if you dont know what you are doing then leave it to someone that does. Once you have the know how and tools then try it...
Also keep in mind most porting jobs also lower compression so head work is also recommended when building a performance engine.

 

[sicivicdude]

My point is that there are 37 replies and 430 views. Do you think people doing research on the subject are going to be more likely or less likely to take on the project of learning how things work if all they ever read is that professionals should be the only ones to touch engines.

A lot of times, the original poster isn't the intended audience for comments I make.

I'm saying that there is less to be afraid of than most people think there is. If you're willing to take some chances and learn from a few mistakes (hopefully nothing too huge because there is enough information out there to help folks get started like Ken O'Connor's video) there is no reason why they shouldn't get in the game. Sure, it's tough (like I said, certainly not the easy road) and there is the possibility you could make a mistake which cannot be easily fixed but the risk is managable and the gains (not just in power but also in knowledge) can be great.

I can also understand the view point you are coming from YFS101, as a dealer/owner you see the liability of damaging someone else's stuff too. As a dealer, you wouldn't go modifying someone's quad without express knowledge of how that mod is going to work and what the potential liability problems are.

 

[StrokedTater244]

and with a dremal tool its easy...
8-|

you can get big power with a dremel using the right attachment and bits I:I

wouldnt call it easy though.

you will have to understand how a 2stroke engine works 1st.. (for starters)

above mentioned books and websites will help you alot. you will have to study for a long time before you think about doing anything in there.