Anybody hear about 2 stroke engine coming back?

yamaha still makes the yz250 and the 125 i believe, ktm will always make 2 strokes,,,there have been rumors in the ama motocross world that the 125 2 strokes are to make a come back in the next few years... lately Mitch Payton owner of team procircuit/kawasaki racing has been sinking tons of money in developing late model kx125s and stuff and has been building up ones that compare to 450s in track times
 
A direct injection oil injection 2 stroke isn't AS dirty as a regular premix carb'd 2 stroke but total loss oiling will never be clean.

Uncagedshadow has it right. The EPA does not hate 2 strokes and the EPA did not tell ANY manufacturers to stop making them. They did however set limits for emission rates and the manufacturers had the choice of how to meet them. They said everything you sell this year can put out X amount of hydrocarbons and PM and Yamaha had the choice of how to make that happen. They could either make 1,000 2 stroke quads or 10,000 4 stroke quads. The manufacturers are the ones who decided to axe the 2 strokes...
 
Very true, but I beleive they could throw out the total loss oiling because the old school detroit diesel motors were 2 stroke and didnt burn oil. Most of those also employed a supercharger and turbocharger to increase efficiency and decrease emissions. If they would lose the total loss oiling and go with direct injection with a fuel management system, I think the 2 stroke could make a huge comeback.
 
The anti-2 stroke movement has always been polititcal , and spear headed by the Sierra club of Northern California . They have very rich and influential members who LOVE their 2 stroke snowmobiles , but HATE joe six pack and his dirtbike and quads . So in an effort to eliminate the " commoners " from riding and making noise that disturbs " hikers " in the middle of the desert and hikers in the middle of nowhere on a mountain generally only accessible by billy goats ( and atv's ) they lined the pockets of lobbysists to " encourage " the EPA and convince them that these machines and the irresponsible people riding them are destroying the environment for everyone else . The sierra club would use ANY tactic to put atv riders in a bad light , and unfortunatly the people that left garbage at their campsites and junk along the trails was plentifull . We as a riding community are now I think far more responsible and take care of the land we ride , There are still those that don't care , but their numbers are dwindling . One of the sierra clubs biggest gripes was noise , they claimed " it bothers hikers , horseback riders and people living in these areas " . Manufacturers fought back with the 4 stroke motor which the sierra club thought would be mostly rejected by off road riders and the market would die ( but them snowmobiles kept on rolling off the assembly line ) . Their plan backfired and the 4 stroke was adopted by riders , some still hate it . Others love it . The problem is that the sierra club and other organizations are always working to reduce the areas we have to ride in , they are organized and have deep pockets and know people in washington d.c. that can with the swipe of a pen , damn near eliminate our outdoor activity . It was never as simple as the 2 stroke engine .
 
Even if they were to have a 2 stroke diesel it wouldn't do any harm to the env. Because a diesel's exhaust just falls back to earth unlike gassers. So I'd they would implement this kind of engine into quads it would make them happy as in the EPA and maybe maybe us.
 
as far as engine design goes , GDI is great , the 2 , 4, 6 , 8 concept ( used in GM trucks ) is smart . Heres the nuts of it . The 4 stroke has so much parasitic drag due to the valve train . back in the 40's , a new engine design was called the sleeve valve engine . It was a 4 stroke , but had sleeves that rotated in their bores that would line up intake and exhaust ports like a 2 stroke , BUT the timing was controlled by a camshaft . I used to know a machinist that had worked on them and been around them and he said they were so quiet you could stand next to it and have a conversation and never know it was running , so more efficient because it wasn't having to compress valve springs every stroke etc . BMW had a Europe only 2 series that had a solenoid driven valve train ( kinda like F1 cars ) . Its biggest downfall was the electrical energy required to run the solenoids at high rpm. standard automotive alternators couldn't produce enough voltage to drive the solenoids . A modern sleeve valve engine with GDI would out perform anything on the market , mileage would be through the roof and yeah oil companies probably wouldn't be really enthusiastic about it . The same machinist I knew ( his name was Gaines Markley , feel free to google him , he was a bad ass dude )
years ago had a idea for a Rotary Screw Valve motor , long cam like rollers with " valve ports " were engineered to create a high power , low drag engine that would put poppet valves to shame , they made prototypes , but obviously it was never a production engine , otherwise we'd all know about it . They key to a efficient , powerfull internal combustion engine , is combine the low end power a 4 stroke produces , with the high rpm freewheel of a 2 stroke . Honda did just that by inventing VTEC , they did it by using multiple cam profiles that made a " wider " powerband ( yup , our beloved powerband ) . Honda Invented VTEC in Formula 1 to make their v6's run with the v8's .
anyways , its fun to think about it .
 
Very true, but I beleive they could throw out the total loss oiling because the old school detroit diesel motors were 2 stroke and didnt burn oil. Most of those also employed a supercharger and turbocharger to increase efficiency and decrease emissions. If they would lose the total loss oiling and go with direct injection with a fuel management system, I think the 2 stroke could make a huge comeback.

Do you know WHY the detroit diesels didn't burn oil? Because they were uni-flow scavenged. They didn't use an exhaust port. They would admit their combustion air into the motor through ports in the side of the block (note: not TRANSFERS, these ports were fed from an intake manifold NOT the crankcase) and the exhaust was controlled by a poppet type exhaust valve controlled by a camshaft. They were 2 strokes in that they put out power every single stroke. Otherwise they were VERY similar to a 4 stroke diesel engine. Also, they HAD to have superchargers because they don't create vacuum inside the engine. The exhaust valves would stay open while the piston descended to allow all of the scavenging possible to happen and then they would close as the intake ports would close. The supercharger was required to push the fresh air in without the vacuum.

Even if they were to have a 2 stroke diesel it wouldn't do any harm to the env. Because a diesel's exhaust just falls back to earth unlike gassers. So I'd they would implement this kind of engine into quads it would make them happy as in the EPA and maybe maybe us.

Do what?! You HAVE to be kidding me.... there's no way you actually believe this dribble.

as far as engine design goes , GDI is great , the 2 , 4, 6 , 8 concept ( used in GM trucks ) is smart . Heres the nuts of it . The 4 stroke has so much parasitic drag due to the valve train . back in the 40's , a new engine design was called the sleeve valve engine . It was a 4 stroke , but had sleeves that rotated in their bores that would line up intake and exhaust ports like a 2 stroke , BUT the timing was controlled by a camshaft . I used to know a machinist that had worked on them and been around them and he said they were so quiet you could stand next to it and have a conversation and never know it was running , so more efficient because it wasn't having to compress valve springs every stroke etc . BMW had a Europe only 2 series that had a solenoid driven valve train ( kinda like F1 cars ) . Its biggest downfall was the electrical energy required to run the solenoids at high rpm. standard automotive alternators couldn't produce enough voltage to drive the solenoids . A modern sleeve valve engine with GDI would out perform anything on the market , mileage would be through the roof and yeah oil companies probably wouldn't be really enthusiastic about it . The same machinist I knew ( his name was Gaines Markley , feel free to google him , he was a bad ass dude )
years ago had a idea for a Rotary Screw Valve motor , long cam like rollers with " valve ports " were engineered to create a high power , low drag engine that would put poppet valves to shame , they made prototypes , but obviously it was never a production engine , otherwise we'd all know about it . They key to a efficient , powerfull internal combustion engine , is combine the low end power a 4 stroke produces , with the high rpm freewheel of a 2 stroke . Honda did just that by inventing VTEC , they did it by using multiple cam profiles that made a " wider " powerband ( yup , our beloved powerband ) . Honda Invented VTEC in Formula 1 to make their v6's run with the v8's .
anyways , its fun to think about it .

The sleeve valve engine is a beautiful work of art and inherently quiet during operation (except the actual combustion they had nearly none or the regular "sewing machine" noise of poppet valves. BUTTTTTTTTTT, sleeves do not move freely during operation... they require lubrication and unlike poppet valves which can be effectively sealed away from the oil, sleeve's NEED oil. In the day when sleeve valves were competitive (early 40's) with poppet valves, oil consumption was not such a concern as ALL engines burnt some oil because of the lack of tight tolerances leading to oil blow-by. ALL engines smoked and poppet valves also weren't sufficiently hard to seal properly for more than a few thousand hours (which is where the belief that engines fell apart at 50,000 miles came from). Unlike sleeve engines, metallurgy and small changes in rubber composition have largely solved the poppet valves burning oil and burning out. Sleeve engines cannot be designed to quarantine the oil away from the combustion area...
 
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There is a usa boat company that makes two stroke engine which are 10 times better then any 4 stroke engine..when I get home i'll post the site. I wish they would make engines for four wheelers
 
Very true, but I beleive they could throw out the total loss oiling because the old school detroit diesel motors were 2 stroke and didnt burn oil. Most of those also employed a supercharger and turbocharger to increase efficiency and decrease emissions. If they would lose the total loss oiling and go with direct injection with a fuel management system, I think the 2 stroke could make a huge comeback.

That's a lot of ifs but just presuming it would happen, why do it?......I'm a skeptic and enjoy looking at radical designs and all that jazz, but I'm also a realist and see that when companies across the globe in automobiles and even other vehicles for that matter invest in 4 stroke power and fuel efficiency, why even bother "wasting" $$$ in 2 stroke R&D. Outside of exclusive designs, even the best 2 stroke won't beat the 4 strokes with equivalent fuel saving innovations and emissions reduction...this is just an inherent issue with moving forward with something that ultimately will more than likely take you nowhere. It is kind of the equivalent of somebody saying why not invest in 4 stroke gas engines when you can make electric powered vehicles that have zero emissions all the way around the board if run off of hydroelectric, solar, and wind powered sources. It's just backtracking.
 
There ahs been some research into fully electronic valve trains for cars in the future. Like a valvetrain that would not have a camshaft or push rods or even the same type of valves as we have today so no need for springs and lifters either. The would use crystal very similar to pizio-electric crystals that expand and contract as different voltages are run through the crystal itself... These crystals would have different voltages applied to them to open and close them at different sizes and times to allow exhaust gases to escape and the A/F mixture to enter. This is of course still in a very experimental stage but would be very cool if they started using tech like this...
 
Well there's nothing revolutionary about the evinrude E-tec engine. They just put together a lot of the latest technology (direct fuel injection, pressurized point oil injection, high pressure combustion chambers, electronic ignition controls, etc, etc)

The result is the cleanest 2 stroke possible but is still an order of magnitude dirtier than a 4 stroke outboard engine.

There's a guy who put a v8 2 stroke outboard engine in a dune buggy. The video's are on youtube. The engine only weighs a few hundred pounds and puts out a few hundred horsepower.
 
Well there's nothing revolutionary about the evinrude E-tec engine. They just put together a lot of the latest technology (direct fuel injection, pressurized point oil injection, high pressure combustion chambers, electronic ignition controls, etc, etc)

The result is the cleanest 2 stroke possible but is still an order of magnitude dirtier than a 4 stroke outboard engine.

There's a guy who put a v8 2 stroke outboard engine in a dune buggy. The video's are on youtube. The engine only weighs a few hundred pounds and puts out a few hundred horsepower.

Wheres that link dummy??I want to see. I:I
 
The OPOC or opposed piston opposed cylinder engine is new radial design. It is a stroke design and can be run off of gas or diesel. Originally thought of for use by helicopters, but now being theorized for the everyday vehicle. Capable of producing high torque for its size and able to acheive over 100 miles to the gallon, makes this a favorable engine of mine. It even boasts slightly lower emissions than most engines today.

Check out this video. Very good information and will help you understand how it works.

An Introduction to EcoMotors with Prof. Peter Hofbauer | EcoMotors

Nice video. Thanks for sharing the link. I really like it. And it gives the information I really wanted.:D