Engine starts - stops after 10-30 seconds

[Racer51]

1A spark needs a strong fat blue/purple
2A The hotter plug will be labeled as a BR8 plug. I'm 95% shure thats the right one
4A when you take the carb cap off along with the spring then the slide there will be the needle and a c clip when you get that far post a pic or tell us what that groove that cllip is on.the air screw should be a brass nob with a phillips screw driver face turn it all the way in then turn it fro the starting point a full 2 and a half turns then get the bike running and adjust slowly in and out and see how the bike idles you want it to idle a tad fast not much. just make shure that the tube to the carb to the back of the air box it tight and dosent have any holes on eather side of the tube air leaks are bad. for a leak down tester there was a guy selling them for a good while but I wouldent know where to pick one up now that he isint here anymore ok I know it;s a lot but break it up and do a little at a time so your confident that you did it right and if your not shure just take it apart it will be good practice for your memory

 

[Blaaster]

my guess is he's useing a BR8ES and not a hotter plug for colder climate and jetting is off by a bit from an air leak and the climate is masking it.

B8es plug is used for all climates, one does not change the heat range of a plug to suit the weather conditions.

It is jets you change to suit temperature variations.

1A spark needs a strong fat blue/purple
2A The hotter plug will be labeled as a BR8 plug. I'm 95% shure thats the right one

the air screw should be a brass nob with a phillips screw driver face turn it all the way in then turn it fro the starting point a full 2 and a half turns then get the bike running and adjust slowly in and out and see how the bike idles you want it to idle a tad fast not much. j

The R series plug is for thoe riders who want to listen to the radio.

1 1/2 turn is the starting point for the air screw setting.

Racer51 you really need to do some serious reading, before you type.

Here is something for you to learn.

Idle adjusting.

Start with air screw 1.5 turns out.

Set idle screw so that it has some sort of idle. With TORS big screw under seat on top of unit. No TORS brass screw midway down carb body.

Warm up motor and then set idle screw for a faster idle, 2000rpm+

Adjust air screw either way to get the fastest idle.

Adjust air screw a little at a time leaving 10 secs to allow the motor to respond.

Re adjust idle screw for desired idle .

 

[Jmnem21]

With TORS big screw under seat on top of unit. No TORS brass screw midway down carb body.[/B]

Warm up motor and then set idle screw for a faster idle, 2000rpm+

Adjust air screw either way to get the fastest idle.

Adjust air screw a little at a time leaving 10 secs to allow the motor to respond.

Re adjust idle screw for desired idle .

I can work on all of these things tonight. I understand where the TORS screw is under the seat, but I didn't understand what you meant by "No TORS brass screw midway down carb body." I know that currently my TORS is all the way screwed down to the carb. I screwed it back down to the body of the carb when I cleaned it out Sunday. I didn't know that was a setting-screw for anything so that is why I screwed it all the way down. So, are you saying that I should undscrew the TORS screw halfway out and then tighten the brass piece down to keep the screw halfway out?

Secondly, no one mentioned anything about the airbox being off on my quad. Is it okay to have it off or do I need to put it back on in cooler weather?

Lastly, I have a picture at the bottom. I just want to make sure I am talking about the correct thing. That is the TORS screw correct?

Thanks again for the help so far guys!I:I

 

[Blaaster]

I can work on all of these things tonight. I understand where the TORS screw is under the seat, but I didn't understand what you meant by "No TORS brass screw midway down carb body." I know that currently my TORS is all the way screwed down to the carb. I screwed it back down to the body of the carb when I cleaned it out Sunday. I didn't know that was a setting-screw for anything so that is why I screwed it all the way down. So, are you saying that I should undscrew the TORS screw halfway out and then tighten the brass piece down to keep the screw halfway out?

Secondly, no one mentioned anything about the airbox being off on my quad. Is it okay to have it off or do I need to put it back on in cooler weather?

Lastly, I have a picture at the bottom. I just want to make sure I am talking about the correct thing. That is the TORS screw correct?

Thanks again for the help so far guys!I:I

View attachment 7342

If the TORS is still fitted to the carby there will be no brass idle adjust screw.

The big knob on top of the TORS is used to adjust the idle speed to around 2000 + revs.

Then the air screw is used to adjust the revs for correct AFR.

Leaving off the airbox lid is ok but you must adjust jetting to suit temperature.

To avoid richening the main jet you could replace the lid to save changing the jet, but in either case plug chop to confirm.

The pic you attached is of the carby cap or lid, washer and cable retainer/adjuster, it takes the place of the TORS unit.

 

[Jmnem21]

If the TORS is still fitted to the carby there will be no brass idle adjust screw.

The big knob on top of the TORS is used to adjust the idle speed to around 2000 + revs.

Then the air screw is used to adjust the revs for correct AFR.

Leaving off the airbox lid is ok but you must adjust jetting to suit temperature.

To avoid richening the main jet you could replace the lid to save changing the jet, but in either case plug chop to confirm.

The pic you attached is of the carby cap or lid, washer and cable retainer/adjuster, it takes the place of the TORS unit.

I know I had a brass screw at the bottom of the TORS. I just tightened the screw all the way down to the brass nut.

I just purchased a couple of the B8ES plugs. I can't seem to find the correct gap for the plug. The BR8ES gap is .032. Would the B8ES be the same?

 

[Blaaster]

How about a pic of the carb and the screw you fiddled with.

Both plugs have the same gap.

Try a B8ES plug the R series has a built in resistor which can make the spark a little weaker.

 

[Jmnem21]

How about a pic of the carb and the screw you fiddled with.

Both plugs have the same gap.

Try a B8ES plug the R series has a built in resistor which can make the spark a little weaker.

Tonight I put the B8ES plug in and then I tried following the steps you mentioned before. I put the air-screw all the way in and then turned it out 1 1/2 turns. I think I have realized now that I do not have a TORS (you can let me know by my picture below). I tried loosening the center screw half-way out of the carby cap and then tightening the brass nut. I started it up, let it warm up, and then began tweaking with the carb.

With the settings mentioned above the quad was having a hard time idling without dying. As I loosened the center screw in the carby it began idling higher and stayed on without cutting out. I also tried adjusting the air-screw too to see what difference it would make. It didn't make too much of a difference but I did notice a little idle change.

I began riding the quad and I am still having the "bogging" out issue that I have been having. I tried adjusting the air-screw throughout testing it out and I was getting no change. I unscrewed the air-screw almost all the way out and still was having the same bog-out issue.

I took the plug out and there was some gas oil mix still on the plug (I don't know if that's normal or not). I gapped the plug out to .060 just to see if that would matter at all and it didn't - still the same issue.

My family is going up to Michigan for the weekend tomorrow and I was trying to get it tuned good enough to take some of the kids out on the quad. That is why I am kind of rushing to fix it before tomorrow afternoon.

I have attached a pic of what the settings look like on my carburetor.



I also took a picture of my header attachment into my engine block. I am getting a little oil leak out of it along with a little bit of an exhaust leak. Could that be causing any issues.

 

[Larry's Shee]

Haven't followed this thread close, but I'll try to help. You do have TORS delete. On top of slide cap is adjustmet for cable slack. Brass screw/nut is the slide stop, holds slide partially open. The fuel air screw is hidden by fuel hose. When adjusting air screw, give the engine time to adjust to new setting, I usually give the throttle a little blip.

Put plug gap at about .028".
As to exhaust leak, it's not good, you'lleither need new gasket or clean everything good and reseal with silicon. Air cleaner clean?

 

[Larry's Shee]

I cleaned the entire carb tonight and that didn't fix anything. The Jet size is 260.

After I cleaned out the carb I replaced the spark plug. The quad started right up after that with no issues. It was just strange to me that the quad worked great for two days and then just quit in the middle of running today because of the spark plug. :-/
That's how a smoker can be

Thanks for the help guys! I look forward to spending more time on the forum in the future. I:I

Well, after driving the quad today for about 30 minutes in our Chicago blizzard we are having, I began having the same bogging out issue. It ran fine at the beginning of riding and then began to slowly start to bog out when the engine was under a load at low RPM. Now it will only stay on for 10 seconds again and die out.

I figure that the new spark plug is probably corroded or something similar to that and that is what is causing it again.

1. Am I having this issue because the quad is possibly tuned for summer driving and I am driving it in 32 degrees or does it seem that there is something bigger than that to cause the same issue with the spark plug again?

2. I have not tuned a carb before. Is that something I can somewhat easily learn on my own or should I have someone do it who is a professional?

Thanks for your help so far guys!

1. I would say that the spark is more on the yellow side. It also seemed slightly wet tonight after two days of sitting.
2. I am running the BR8ES plug.
3. I just cleaned the entire carb on Sunday night.
4. I am new to this, so how do I check the needle position and turn out on air screws?
5. As far as the air box goes, I currently have a K&N cone air filter on the carb with no air box. I didn't know anything about the air box set up that came with the quad stock. I found a box from the guy I purchased the quad from that had the stock airbox in it. So...do I need to install that one on the quad? Pros/Cons to having it off?

Is the air cleaner attached directly to the carb? :-/

Is there a way for me to check for the air leak?
Depending where it's at, you can use unlit propane torch, starting fluid, brake clean, anything flamsble will cause increase in idle, if inflamable decrease. You spray around carb, carb boot, reed gasket, cyl base gasket, head gasket. IMHO by the looks of the plug you are not lean. You have either a spark problem OR you mixed your gas/oil ratio wrong. As to the spark, remove plug cap from wire, trim 1/4" from wire, reattach (preferably with some dielectric grease). Make sure the ground connections are clean and tight, and coil mount is clean, bare metal and tight.

And yes I went back through the whole thread I:I


View attachment 7341

With all I typed, it still says 15 charactures ( head bang) 8-|

OOPS, I typed all that inside your quotes. Hope you can find what I typed, SORRY

 

[Jmnem21]

With all I typed, it still says 15 charactures ( head bang) 8-|

OOPS, I typed all that inside your quotes. Hope you can find what I typed, SORRY

Wow! I had to re-read all of my quotes very carefully to see what you wrote. That was interesting.

Couple of questions and responses to yours:
1. You said: "That's how a smoker can be" at one point in your response. What do you mean by that?
2. You asked me if my air cleaner is attached to the carb. Yes, it is directly attached to the carb with no air box. I also purchased the K&N air cleaner kit this afternoon and cleaned it out and re-oiled it again, so it is clean but I still had the same issue.
3. I will try some of those air leak tests that you mentioned to see if I can get anywhere with that. I'll also look at some of the grounds and other wires, etc.
4. The gas/oil ratio sort of makes sense to me since it was my first tank of gas to fill. The only issue with that is that I purchased a Ratio Rite measurement cup and did 1/32 to one gallon of gas with Honda's synthetic HP2 oil. Maybe that is the issue but I did ride it for 30 minutes with that in the tank with no issues last Saturday. But it still kind of makes sense to me. Would 1/32 be a good ratio during this time of year? It also seemed to notice quite a bit of smoke tonight as I was tuning but I figured that was sort of normal with the oil burning.

Thanks for going back through the whole thread! I:I

 

[Blaaster]

Go through this checklist, everything up to and including number 7 is relevant to your problem

1. B8es plug, bright blue spark at the correct time.
2. Clean fuel system, no leaks.
3. Exhaust system no leaks.
4. Intake system no leaks.
5. Correct float level, 20 to 21.5mm.
6. Correct idle as posted previously, and air screw not touched as it has no bearing on your type of bogging.
7. Needle on middle clip.
8. Mininium Jetting......... FMF Likes a #260
Better air filter + #270
Airbox lid off + #290
32:1 + #300
Cold weather + #310
Colder weather + #320
9. Start big and plug chop back.

Float level should 20 to 21.5mm on a stock carby.

Idle adjusting.

Start with air screw 1.5 turns out.

Set idle screw so that it has some sort of idle. With TORS it is the big screw under seat on top of unit. With no TORS it is the brass screw midway down carb body.

Warm up motor and then set idle screw for a faster idle, 2000rpm+

Adjust air screw either way to get the fastest idle.

Adjust air screw a little at a time leaving 10 secs to allow the motor to respond.

Re adjust idle screw for desired idle .


Before you make the plug chop run it is important that the float level is correct, the idle is set correctly and there are no air leaks in the system, otherwise the smoke ring may lie about the AFR.

WHEN ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE CORRECT PROCEED WITH THE FOLLOWING.

Warm up motor to operating temp.

Fit new B8ES plug, ride through the gears and hold WOT in 5th or 6th gear for 10 seconds, or as long as you can safely.

Switch off the motor and pull in the clutch, apply brakes to come to a stop quickly.

Take the plug out and replace the old one for the ride home.

Carefully cut the threaded end off the plug to expose the insulator.

There should be a smoke ring of a cardboard or biscuit colour around the insulator.

If it is non existant or a very light colour, you are lean and require a larger main jet.

If it is a lot darker you are rich and may go down a size in main.

I prefer to run a little on the darker side, I may loose a little power but it is worth it for the peace of mind that I won't need a rebuild so soon.

http://www.blasterforum.com/do-yourself-20/how-plug-chop-38674/

http://www.blasterforum.com/engine-13/plug-chop-how-vid-48226/

This is a good to go plug.

This one is a little rich, but I would run it, I like to be on the safe side.

You have to get up a reasonable speed so that you can get the motor to pull strongly.

Then hold it Wide Open Throttle (WOT) for 10 secs or as long as you can.

The idea is not to get speed but to make it pull strong at full throttle to get onto the main jet curcuit.

I find I can safely do it on a short run by applying the brakes some.

If you have not enough room you can use 4th or 5th gear with good results.

 

[Jmnem21]

Thanks so much Blaaster!!!I:I That will keep me busy for a while!

BTW, are you seriously 69 years old?

 

[Blaaster]

No I lie, I am 69 years and 7 months, born in 1943.

 

[Jmnem21]

No I lie, I am 69 years and 7 months, born in 1943.

That's awesome! Thanks again! I look forward to learning a lot from you all over the next few months that I am learning my quad. I:I

 

[Blaaster]

That's awesome! Thanks again! I look forward to learning a lot from you all over the next few months that I am learning my quad. I:I

Come to Aussie and I will teach you how to ride as well, lol

 

[Larry's Shee]

No I lie, I am 69 years and 7 months, born in 1943.

You know, my father spent a lot of time in OZ during the war, LOL just kidding.

"How a smoker can be" might not be as relevent now as back when they had points and condensers and static ignition timing, they would just foul a plug, sometimes I think it was due to the lead in the gas. Plus that was piston port engine, no reed valves

Seems to me I've seen mention of tuning problems with the filter mounted on the carb, they seem to prefer a section of tube/pipe/hose to "straighten" the air before it gets to carb.

reason I mentioned mix ratio is the pic of your plug, it looks to have a blob of oil right on the electrode. Bad spark, too high float level, over rich jetting, weak spark, OR you are sucking trans oil in. Does it smoke a lot? Is the smoke whiteish color? Does it stink?

Sorry again for messing up my post to lazy to re-do, and I'm a computer short-bus specialist

 

[Jmnem21]

You know, my father spent a lot of time in OZ during the war, LOL just kidding.

"How a smoker can be" might not be as relevent now as back when they had points and condensers and static ignition timing, they would just foul a plug, sometimes I think it was due to the lead in the gas. Plus that was piston port engine, no reed valves

Seems to me I've seen mention of tuning problems with the filter mounted on the carb, they seem to prefer a section of tube/pipe/hose to "straighten" the air before it gets to carb.

reason I mentioned mix ratio is the pic of your plug, it looks to have a blob of oil right on the electrode. Bad spark, too high float level, over rich jetting, weak spark, OR you are sucking trans oil in. Does it smoke a lot? Is the smoke whiteish color? Does it stink?

Sorry again for messing up my post to lazy to re-do, and I'm a computer short-bus specialist

The blob of oil on the spark plug concerned me also. I was wondering how that was happening. Since I was running a 260 jet I thought I wasn't overly rich with gas. I was thinking of draining the gas tomorrow and refilling it just to see if that possibly was my issue to begin with. As far as the smoke goes, I would say it was a blue/gray color.

Also, is there any explanation guide somewhere that explains how to adjust the float level. I know where the float is because I tore the carb apart on Sunday. I just am not sure how to adjust it. Thanks

 

[Larry's Shee]

The part of the float that contacts the float needle valve is called the "tang". You carefully bend it to adjust level. Small needle nose works good. Even small straight screw driver and either pry or push the tang. Be gentle with it though. Only takes a tiny bit to change the level. Make sure it moves freely with bowl off, then with bowl on if shaken gently should hear rattle. Also might hook fuel line to carb with bowl off and see if when you lightly push up on float the gas does stop.

When you mixed your fuel, how many gallons of gas did you start with?
Back under the kickstarter is the sight glass for trans oil level, can you tell how much is in it?

 

[Larry's Shee]

Would you say it smokes a lot, like you're spraying mosquitos?

 

[Blaaster]

Seems to me I've seen mention of tuning problems with the filter mounted on the carb, they seem to prefer a section of tube/pipe/hose to "straighten" the air before it gets to carb.

The straight length of tube increases the velocity.


I have never had any problems running the carb directly on the carb throat on a motor that has an adequate size carby on it., mounting it there will give you the best power increase as ther are no air restrictions.

The problems arise when folks use a carby that is too big for the motor, that is when you need a tube to increase the velocity.

The greater the diameter will slow down the air flow and interfere with the fuel pick up.